FCP X can’t do “pro” is officially vaporized.

[Walter Soyka]

[Robin S. Kurz] “So I take it you missed this?” (12″ Macbook cutting 4K YouTube demo)

Robin, earlier you said, “We have a 12 machine FCP X suite.” I assumed you meant twelve Macs with shared storage, not one twelve-inch Macbook.

https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true

In all seriousness, what are your machine specs? Do you use a low-spec itty-bitty laptop for editorial or would you seriously recommend it?

[Robin S. Kurz] “You know of course which of the two is in fact more expensive, right? Oh, and STILL doesn’t deliver the needed performance. Hmmm… how does that work out to an “overly expensive Mac”? :D”

You did notice Steve’s smiley, right?

If we’re talking about shared storage ($$$), we’re talking about real facilities and real money, and we’re not talking about individual Macs ($), right? Even if shared storage is “expensive,” hardware and software costs pale in comparison to labor costs ($$$$$).

Twelve nice-ish Macs, maybe usable for 3 years?
12 * $4000 = $48,000 (2.5%)

Some kind of nice shared storage infrastructure for them, maybe also usable for 3 years?
Guessing = $80,000 (4.1%)

Twelve cheap-ish editors, over 3 years?
12 * $50,000/yr * 3 years = $1,800,000 (93.4%)

Please correct my numbers where I’m wrong, but until we start moving decimal points, the system cost is only drops in the bucket. Extra money on the system upfront that would save more money on the labor over time is well-spent.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Walter Soyka]

[Ronny Courtens] “And these will not involve needing exclusive and overly expensive hardware solutions.”

If we’re talking about Avid’s ISIS, it’s not exclusive. You can use other NLEs on ISIS, and you can buy other shared storage solutions that support Avid’s bin locking.

As for overly expensive, yes, starting at ~$18k for 14TB of usable space is a bit steep.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Michael Hancock]

[Walter Soyka] “As for overly expensive, yes, starting at ~$18k for 14TB of usable space is a bit steep.”

I agree that Avid’s storage is overpriced compared to most other options, but $18K is more of a starting point in negotiations.

You can buy an ISIS 1000 from Videoguys for $14K, and if you use one of their 5% off discount codes you’re under $13,300. For a small post house with a couple editors, wanting to use Avid, that’s very affordable.

—————-
Michael Hancock
Editor

[Robin S. kurz]

[Walter Soyka] “In all seriousness, what are your machine specs?”

All current gen 5K iMacs. We have various other Macs also btw, some even 8+ years old and running great. AND editing.

It’s one of two schools. University of applied sciences.

[Walter Soyka] “Do you use a low-spec itty-bitty laptop for editorial or would you seriously recommend it?”

I think you’re confusing two entirely different, unrelated posts of mine. But, yes, I do in fact use a MacBook Pro for editing. In fact exclusively until recently.

[Walter Soyka] “You did notice Steve’s smiley, right?”

Well, MINE are clearly not always interpreted correctly either. 😉 Coulda been a “just kidding” or a “know what I mean?”. I guess I went for the wrong one. Ah well. My bad. 🙂

– RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!

[Walter Soyka]

[Michael Hancock] “You can buy an ISIS 1000 from Videoguys for $14K, and if you use one of their 5% off discount codes you’re under $13,300. For a small post house with a couple editors, wanting to use Avid, that’s very affordable.”

Especially when you consider what you get with a real collaborative editorial workflow, instead of frame it purely in what you’re spending on a quantity of spinning rust.

Robin suggested above that the difference with such a system was thousands of dollars versus a few clicks. I wonder if that’s overly reductive. Using the skimmer “only” saves you one click, but I think we’re all agreed that the skimmer is a way more powerful feature in practice than it is in theory.

I view Avid’s bin sharing the same way. The fact that Media Composer just works, whether you’re one user, two users, or a dozen users, is also more powerful in practice than it is theory.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Walter Soyka]

[Robin S. Kurz] “Well, MINE are clearly not always interpreted correctly either. 😉 Coulda been a “just kidding” or a “know what I mean?”. I guess I went for the wrong one. Ah well. My bad. :)”

My apologies for misconstruing.

I mainly wanted to start a conversation about the economics of shared storage. I need more persuasion before I believe that Avid’s (or Adobe’s) enterprise-system costs are too high.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Robin S. kurz]

[Walter Soyka] “Robin suggested above that the difference with such a system was thousands of dollars versus a few clicks. I wonder if that’s overly reductive.”

I actually wrote nearly the same functionality. What certain functionality is worth to the individual is for the individual to decide. Simply for ME and the people I work for and with it’s imply not an option, be it financially or (most of all) practically. The pros simply don’t outweigh the cons, regardless of price. That’s just the last nail in the coffin.

[Walter Soyka] “The fact that Media Composer just works, whether you’re one user, two users, or a dozen users, is also more powerful in practice than it is theory.”

I find that to be a rather ironic statement in light of the fact that, except for one, every Avid was just recently removed entirely from our school (after something like 10+ years), because the sys admins deemed them far too unstable and support hungry overall in comparison to FCP and Premiere. Especially since they didn’t dare install either of the latter on the same machine, making it completely unfeasible to just maintain single machines that couldn’t be used for anything else. It’s been removed from the curriculum as well. YMMV.

– RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!

[Bill Davis]

Well…

https://lumaforge.com/jellyfish/

The latest hardware solution from the team that did the RTS install.

I’d say things are going to be getting VERY interesting in the small shop collaborative space.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Ronny Courtens] “Hey Andrew,

We have implemented FCP X in quite a lot of facilities that do highly collaborative work. I’m going to publish some more stories in the coming two months, most of them dealing with collaborative editing using FCP X. One is about Endemol Shine Africa where they do sitcoms, reality and entertainment using only FCP X in a collaborative environment, another is about two Warner divisions who have switched to FCP X for reality productions. And you may have missed this one: https://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1687-final-cut-pro-x-in-enterprise...”

Thanks Ronny. I’m certainly looking forward to the forthcoming articles.

[Andrew Kimery]

[Robin S. Kurz] “I was not talking about your example, no. I can hardly speak for that. In my case that amount of sharing isn’t needed, since mainly individual, single-person projects are produced. But again, even when it is needed, I think the minor amount of additional “effort” (if that what a few clicks actually represent for anyone) to have nearly the same result, only for tens if not hundreds of thousands of $$ less, it’s a small (huge) price to (not) pay. 🙂 “

I agree that worth is in the eye of the beholder. Bill, for example, really likes how the Share to Vimeo feature in X saves steps (even though they are minor steps) when you need to get something up to Vimeo. For me it’s not really a feature I care about because I rarely use streaming sites like Vimeo. The few extra clicks don’t bother me because I do them so infrequently, but if I uploaded to Vimeo frequently I’m sure I would find more value in having the process streamlined.

I’m not sure where the 10’s-100’s of thousands of dollars price difference comes from these days. Prices, at least in the States, don’t vary nearly that much. ISIS is pricier but 3rd party shared storage venders offer ISIS-style bin locking. The downside, from what I’ve read, is that there is a bit of a cat and mouse game between Avid and the third parties where Avid will update code to break 3rd party bin locking and then the 3rd parties will have to roll out their own update to enable it again. This can lead to some flakiness with bin locking on 3rd parties from what I’ve read? How bad is it? I dunno, but I guess you can see the extra cost for ISIS in that you are running on ‘official’ hardware that won’t have those issues. At least that the gist I’ve gotten from integrators that deal with this stuff on a daily basis.

[Robin S. Kurz] “But aside from all that, I think one needs to first and foremost keep in mind that we’re not even talking about STANDARD features or options in Avid, but we are with FCP X. So really it’s not even a reasonable comparison to begin with. Without all the additional, massively expensive soft and hardware, Avid’s sharing capabilities are no better than anyone else’s. Unless I missed something since I last used it (v6?).
“

Of course they are standard features in Avid. Whether I’m working alone or in a group or with a guy on the other side of town Avid works the same way. As a solo editor I can move things around via the Finder, use the Open Bin command to open a bin up from another project, etc.,. One of the nice things about Avid is that working in a group is the same experience as working solo since in both scenarios everything can be contained in a single project. With other NLEs there is an additional layer of managing multiple projects that comes into play.

Again, the perceived value of all of this depends the users and the situation. I’ve worked in large multi-user environments with FCP Legend and Avid, and a small multi-user environment with PPro and I could make an argument for, or against, any of them.