FCP vs. Sony Vegas….you’ve got to be kidding.

[Tom Wolsky]

Buh-bye.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Brody Dolyniuk] “I’m used to dropping ANY format audio or video file (wmv, mov, mp3, avi, mpeg) with any sample rate or frame rate into the timeline, or any combination thereof, adding whatever edits, transitions and effects I want and watching it back in real time without any rendering (with good quality, or at least preview quality if I was running many video tracks with multiple effects).”

Sounds like you didn’t do your homework before making the switch.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.

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[Shane Ross]

If that is what you needed, then that is what you should stick with. If you have 20 different formats and frame rates and just need to mix them…then use Vegas. FCP doesn’t work that way. FCP requires things to be one of a couple dozen EDITING formats (look at the Easy Setup list) for things to go smooth. You can’t just dump garbage in the timeline and edit. If you want to deal with random garbage, then use Vegas…it is great with being able to handle that.

FCP has other strengths that Vegas lacks. That’s why it is an industry standard, and why it is used for broadcast TV work, and film work. Vegas might be fine for short form TV work, but I don’t know one shop using it for long form work (half hour to 2 hour projects)

There are all sorts of editing needs out there. One editing application doesn’t fulfill all of those needs. That is why there are several different NLEs on the market. If you want to do one kind of work, you use FCP, another, you use Avid…another, Premiere…another, Vegas. They are all just tools, and tools to accomplish certain tasks.

You wouldn’t use a hammer to put a screw into wood, it would tear it up, so you grab your screw driver. Is the hammer somehow INFERIOR to the screwdriver? No, it is different. Try to pound a nail into a wall with a screwdriver. Different tasks…different workflows…different tools.

As Walter said, you didn’t do your homework to see if FCP would fit the kind of projects you need to accomplish.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Brody Dolyniuk]

Yep, you’re right. I didn’t do my homework…..shame on me. I needed the Mac for other applications and knew that I could no longer use Vegas, so I assumed that the leading MAC video editor, FCP would be compliant with most popular formats out there.

For example, the first thing I dragged in was a web video in QuickTime mp4 format. That’s an Apple codec, right? When I dragged it into the timeline, I chose the option to convert the project/sequence’s properties to match that of the video. And yet, it wouldn’t play back the audio until I converted that to a separate AIFF stream.

I certainly didn’t expect that I couldn’t even watch back a section of the clip just by adding basic text over the video. Why can’t it play back its own proprietary text format without rendering?

That means that for the 20 or so pieces of text I wanted to add, adjust, and then see the results, I would have to render each move? I don’t see how you guys handle that….I’m sorry.

And as for the “garbage” comment, yes, sometimes it’s necessary to grab an mp3 audio file, then a wav sound effect, and a couple different formats of video to make a final product (for me anyway). I’ve been spoiled I guess by being able to work with these formats instantly vs. having to wait to render them first. That’s a lot of time spent waiting 🙂

Like you said, there are different needs for everyone, and I’m sure FCP offers some features that Vegas cannot do…..but right now I’m just concerned with an editor that handles the everyday, basic functions with as little hassle as possible.

And again, sorry to offend anyone….just venting frustration and looking for answers. Looks like I found them.

Cheers!

[Tom Wolsky]

“QuickTime mp4 format. That’s an Apple codec, right?”

Neither are codecs.

[Shane Ross]

[Brody Dolyniuk] “the first thing I dragged in was a web video in QuickTime mp4 format. That’s an Apple codec, right? “

MP4 is a codec that is available in QT. But not every codec that is in QT is editable by FCP. For the list of EDITING codecs, you need to look in the EASY SETUP list. FCP will work with it, but not without massive amount of rendering to get the video TO an editing format (the sequence settings). This is why you need to convert footage to an editing format.

[Brody Dolyniuk] “And yet, it wouldn’t play back the audio until I converted that to a separate AIFF stream. “

Correct. Audio needs to be an AIF or WAV file, 16-bit stereo, 48khz. FCP is picky because it wants GOOD audio, not crap audio. Nor crap video.

OH, it can! If you use one of those editing codecs I talked about. I add text all the time to footage and while I get a green render bar (meaning when I am done I’ll need to render), I can play it fine without rendering.

[Brody Dolyniuk] “I certainly didn’t expect that I couldn’t even watch back a section of the clip just by adding basic text over the video. Why can’t it play back its own proprietary text format without rendering? “

You really can’t just grab an application and start just using it…not without LEARNING about it. What is it capable of doing? How do you need to do things to accomplish what you want. You are doing the classic thing of grabbing a new NLE and just trying to get it to act like the last NLE you used. Sorry, it won’t work that way. YOu have to learn how to use the new application.

[Brody Dolyniuk] “That means that for the 20 or so pieces of text I wanted to add, adjust, and then see the results, I would have to render each move? I don’t see how you guys handle that….I’m sorry. “

We deal with formats that FCP can edit. Shoot with cameras that FCP can capture or import from. Convert outside QT formats into editing formats, then edit.

[Brody Dolyniuk] “And as for the “garbage” comment, yes, sometimes it’s necessary to grab an mp3 audio file, then a wav sound effect, and a couple different formats of video to make a final product (for me anyway).”

That’s fine..I do too. I just convert to a workable format before I edit. Converting an MP3 to AIFF with Compressor takes seconds. VERY fast. QT movies longer, depending on the source format, and what you are converting too.

[Brody Dolyniuk] “I’ve been spoiled I guess by being able to work with these formats instantly vs. having to wait to render them first. That’s a lot of time spent waiting 🙂 “

Well, typically FCP is used to capture tape formats, or tapeless formats, and work with those. And you can watch your footage as it is capturing, or start working with your footage as it is importing (Log and Transfer)…so we can work while importing or capturing. Because editors need to know what footage they have.

[Brody Dolyniuk] ” right now I’m just concerned with an editor that handles the everyday, basic functions with as little hassle as possible. “

Your basic, everyday functions are obviously different than mine. I capture from tape…or P2, or SxS, or Canon 7D…and then edit that…and then output to tape, or to DVD. I might have some stock footage come in on DVD with timecode. I simply convert that to the same codec I am editing with, adjust the timecode to match the burn in timecode, and then continue to edit. I don’t just have random QTs thrust in my direction and am asked to edit them. Nor do I search the web for QT movies and AVIs and start editing with those. IF you need to do that…use Vegas. That’s it’s strong suit.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Michael Sacci]

Also you CAN run Vegas on a Mac, in Bootcamp.

[Brody Dolyniuk]

Thanks Michael, I just reinstalled Windows and Vegas via Boot Camp.

Oh and Tom….thanks for all your help.

[Brody Dolyniuk]

Wow, Tom. Glad I’m not the only one.

Careful though….lot of very defensive FCP users here. Best of luck to you with your learning experience.

Now where did I put that hammer? I’ve got some screwing to do….

[Shane Ross]

[Brody Dolyniuk] “Careful though….lot of very defensive FCP users here.”

Because FCP is perfect for many situations. Not for yours, obviously. But then Vegas would be a horrible choice for what I need to do to.

I’d be yelling on their forums for it’s lack of ability to export an OMF of the audio to my sound mixer so that they can mix the sound. And the poor color correcting tools it offers oppsed to Avid or Final Cut (Color, actually). Can I export EDLs so that my producers can track stock footage use? Can I import footage at low resolution, then recapture frame accurately at full resolution (in terms of getting temp footage for use as stock footage, then master footage replacements). Can I upconvert SD to HD with capture cards? I know that the AJA cards work with Vegas, but output only…so at least I have SD downconverts. Can it track keycode and edgecode information for cutting footage shot on film, when needing to go back for a negative cut?

And that’s just a sampling of the stuff I do, and what I need an NLE to be able to handle. I don’t need it to be able to deal with any sort of QT or movie file I throw at it. I need it to be able to mesh with the other professional products in my production chain. So see?

One NLE isn’t right for everyone. If you like Vegas, and need what Vegas does…then use Vegas! No one is forcing you to use FCP….

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def