FCP interprets ProRes Incorrectly?

[Rob Grauert]

Hmm…just a hunch, but are you sure the footage is actually 23.98 and not 23.98 with a pull-down pattern, which is actually 29.97?

Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com

[Matt Campbell]

Not sure. How can I tell? I’ve stepped through a clip frame by frame and I see cleans frame, not pulldown.

I’ve also just tried to re-injest from the AVCHD clips DCIM card. I’ve got FCP Log and Transfer set to transcode to ProRes 422. The clip came in as 1080, 23.98, Upper (Odd).

Could be be similar to DV 24p. Meaning would the camera record at 60i and flag frames for FCP to remove, leaving me with 23.98?

I’ve never worked with footage like this before. What would my sequence set up be?

OS 10.6.3, Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 16 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card

[Matt Campbell]

sorry also forgot to mention that when I overwrite the new, Upper field clip into a new sequence, and hit yes for having the clip match the sequence settings, it gives me a 1080 23.98 Progressive timeline. Is this correct?

OS 10.6.3, Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 16 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card

[David Roth weiss]

Matt,

After performing several complete systematic forensic investigations of misinterpreted fields, I found an entire hodge-podge of various sources of incomplete or bad metadata that can confuse Compressor and potentially create precisely the types of field issues you are asking about.

In one case, a client used a camera that recorded directly to a certain brand of hard drive recorder, like a FireStore, but not that brand. After a very precise and thorough investigation of his entire workflow, I was able to determine that the recorder he was using completely left out a crucial line of metadata embedded in the Quicktime files it created. That missing line was #21, which IDs the field dominance of the clip. So, no matter what was recorded, interlaced or progressive, Compressor always interpreted the material as progressive, because the metadata it requires to automatically interpret filed dominance was simply missing in action. So, without any metadata regarding fields, Compressor will always interpret that video as “none,” or progressive.

I found this same issue in other video that had been transcoded by several different apps, including Streamclip. So, it seems that this missing metadata is a pervasive problem that can be caused in many, many ways in current workflows in use these days, throughout the entire video chain.

The solution I’ve found is to force proper fields whenever and wherever possible, never rely upon auto interpretation of fields in any of the apps I use, including and especially Compressor.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Matt Campbell]

Thanks David. So is there no real way then to interpret the footage correctly. My assumption is that because its 1080p23.98, that this is progressive. I didn’t know that camera’s could add pulldown to 1080 24p material upon capture. Or can’t they? I thought that was just DV material?

Anyway, I’m fairly certain this is progressive it came from a TV shoot. Just about all our vendors shoot, edit and finish in 24p. then upon creating dubs for stations, they’ll add in pulldown upon output to tape.

OS 10.6.3, Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 16 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card

[David Roth weiss]

[Matt Campbell] “So is there no real way then to interpret the footage correctly. My assumption is that because its 1080p23.98, that this is progressive.”

There is, just not using the automatic field interpretation feature in Compressor.

You have to turn on Frame Controls and, in this case, force it to output progressive frames by changing Output Fields from “same as source” to “progressive.” This should provide a workaround for you if indeed you are correct and the material is progressive and is being misinterpreted.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Matt Campbell]

I’m sorry for the confusion on my part. But isn’t just OK to change this directly in FCP under the Field Dominance in the Brower? If that is OK, wouldn’t that be better than sending all the clips through Compressor again, and have generation loss?

You mention there is a way for field interpretation. Do you another app to check field order or did you simply mean transcoding them and forcing progressive, as you mentioned. I wasn’t sure if something like After Effects would interpret correctly. Or even some 3rd party app like MediaInfo.

OS 10.6.3, Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 16 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Matt Campbell] “I’m sorry for the confusion on my part. But isn’t just OK to change this directly in FCP under the Field Dominance in the Brower”

Absolutely. It’s the only place it need to change.

Jeremy

[David Roth weiss]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Absolutely. It’s the only place it need to change.”

Yes, as Jeremy already responded… I’m not sure why, but I was fixated on Compressor. FCP will also misinterpret screwy or missing metadata.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Matt Campbell]

Thanks guys. I think I’m good with my footage but still have one question unanswered. Generally speaking, is it possible to have 24p footage recorded in 60i at 1080. Is this just like 24p DV material where the camera flags certain frames so FCP can remove them? I guess this is more with tape formats rather than solid state media, or am I wrong there too.

I’ve always just digitize solid state material and boom, what you see if what you get. The only tape formats I’ve worked with are DV. And I think thats been mostly 60i or 30p.

OS 10.6.3, Mac Pro 2 x 2.66 ghz quad-core intel xenon, 16 gb ram, with BM Intensity Pro card