FCP Color and Gamma Handling on 4:4:4 RGB Media

[Charles Taylor]

Just posted a show in 1920×1080 AJA 10bit RGB. Had no issues…

Our workflow was:

Edit DV offline.
Re-link FCP media to 10bit RGB files (changing sequence settings, obviously)
Export specific shots for VFX.
Render TIFFs out of Shake.
Use AE to make 10bit RGB QT out of TIFFs (10 bit QT is broken in Shake right now).
Replace VFX on timeline with the new QTs.
Used FCP “Send to Color”.
Graded in Color, monitoring with KONA 3 on Christie Roadster.
Rendered.
Used Color’s “Send to FCP”.
Rendered out at 1080 and 720 with Compressor to Apple Uncompressed and DVCPro HD (our delivery format).

Observed no gamma shifts (thank god…).

Maybe if you could post your exact workflow like that, we could narrow it down?

[Tobias Heilmann-schuricht]

Hi,

As posted initially, our worklflow looks as follows:

RAW footage (RED)

Converted (First Light CC) to 10 Bit DPX in Red Cine (The AJA 10B 4:4:4 Codec is not available in Red Cine at this point,

Used AJA DPX Converter 5.1 to convert 10B DPX Files to 10B 4:4:4 RGB Codec.

Imported on to 10B 4:4:4 Codec Timeline (FCP 6.0.3). (Render RGB Settings)

Sent to Color (1.0.2) to grade (10 Bit Mode)

Sent back to FCP in the same AJA Codec.

Sequence still same settings.

Clips playback fine (look great), the image is identical to that in Color. As soon as I render anything with those clips (crop, filter, size, etc. doesn’t matter what) I see a dramatic shift in what I perceive to be a darker Gamma Level. I see this both in the Viewer, as well as the Kona3 Dual Link Output.

Even when I just export this sequence as a Quicktime Movie (using original settings) without rendering anything, I get this shift in the exported movie.

So there’s what we did. Any ideas? Thank you!

In Touch Media Entertainment
Munich, Germany

[Tobias Heilmann-schuricht]

Hi,

As posted initially, our worklflow looks as follows:

RAW footage (RED)

Converted (First Light CC) to 10 Bit DPX in Red Cine (The AJA 10B 4:4:4 Codec is not available in Red Cine at this point,

Used AJA DPX Converter 5.1 to convert 10B DPX Files to 10B 4:4:4 RGB Codec.

Imported on to 10B 4:4:4 Codec Timeline (FCP 6.0.3). (Render RGB Settings)

Sent to Color (1.0.2) to grade (10 Bit Mode)

Sent back to FCP in the same AJA Codec.

Sequence still same settings.

Clips playback fine (look great), the image is identical to that in Color. As soon as I render anything with those clips (crop, filter, size, etc. doesn’t matter what) I see a dramatic shift in what I perceive to be a darker Gamma Level. I see this both in the Viewer, as well as the Kona3 Dual Link Output.

Even when I just export this sequence as a Quicktime Movie (using original settings) without rendering anything, I get this shift in the exported movie.

So there’s what we did. Any ideas? Thank you!

In Touch Media Entertainment
Munich, Germany

[Tobias Heilmann-schuricht]

Hi,

As posted initially, our worklflow looks as follows:

RAW footage (RED)

Converted (First Light CC) to 10 Bit DPX in Red Cine (The AJA 10B 4:4:4 Codec is not available in Red Cine at this point,

Used AJA DPX Converter 5.1 to convert 10B DPX Files to 10B 4:4:4 RGB Codec.

Imported on to 10B 4:4:4 Codec Timeline (FCP 6.0.3). (Render RGB Settings)

Sent to Color (1.0.2) to grade (10 Bit Mode)

Sent back to FCP in the same AJA Codec.

Sequence still same settings.

Clips playback fine (look great), the image is identical to that in Color. As soon as I render anything with those clips (crop, filter, size, etc. doesn’t matter what) I see a dramatic shift in what I perceive to be a darker Gamma Level. I see this both in the Viewer, as well as the Kona3 Dual Link Output.

Even when I just export this sequence as a Quicktime Movie (using original settings) without rendering anything, I get this shift in the exported movie.

So there’s what we did. Any ideas? Thank you!

In Touch Media Entertainment
Munich, Germany

[Charles Taylor]

I would wager you’re running up against any one of several things.

1. For some reason, the Render in RGB setting. I left this alone when I was working in 10 bit RGB.
2. The preference regarding gamma levels for RGB settings. There are a variety of options there, I suggest trying them and seeing what happens.
3. Some ColorSync nonsense (I know, it shouldn’t be relevant, but you never know). What gamma is you monitor set to? FCP expects gamma 1.8.

If I may ask, why are you using the 4:4:4 codec? Since FCP will convert your 10 bit to 8 bit anyway, I might try using a YUV(ish) codec. Or do an offline/online workflow using DPX. (Sorry, I’m sure you’ve considered this and rejected it for some reason, but just thought I’d bring it up).

If you want, you could try sending me a few frames of your original footage, and I’ll try your workflow myself (I don’t have dual link, but otherwise my setup is similar).