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FCP Capture Card?
Looks like I may need to bite the bullet on a FCP system. Having 3 Media 100 systems with one being a 844/X I am in dire need of a 24p HD suite. What card is being talked about them most for FCP? We have a router system that is SDI and one HD deck with a HD SDI output along with 2 other SD decks. We shoot varicam. Working with 844/X is a dream as far as speed. With the G5, has FCP gotten any faster on renders?
Thanks for any input.
Elliott
Bright Blue Sky Productions
4811 Rivoli Dr
Macon, GA 31210 -
14 Replies
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Just do a search for AJA, BlackMagic, Aurora, Capture Card on this forum. This has been discussed dozens, if not hundreds of times over the past year. You can also visit the various forums.
I run two AJA Kona 2 suites here for HD and SD production.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Hi Elliot,
We run both an 844x and FCP suite…our FCP is on a dual 2.0 G5, so it’s a fairly fast computer.
While FCP is nice, it’s not even close to the 844x as far as speed and interactivity…in fact, I’d say it’s comparing apples to oranges. If you’re talking pretty straightforward editing, then FCP is fine. But if you’re hoping to match 844x capabilities with layering, real time transfer modes, etc., it’s not
even close…not to mention FCP slows down even more in 10 bit modes.I don’t want to seem like I’m bashing FCP (here in a FCP forum), but if you’re used to an 844x, I’d REALLY suggest sitting down at a FCP station for a few days. I’m not saying FCP can’t do the same things…but if I’m under the gun with a client sitting behind me, I’ll take the 844 anyday. But of course, it all depends on what type of work you’re trying to do.
I’m just down the road in Tallahassee…I read a lot of your posts in the 844 forum when we were looking to purchase ours, so if I can return the favor with more information, just give me a ring.
Jason Kalinoski
Evolution Media
Tallahassee, FL
850.552.0613 -
Oh…and we use an AJA IO with our FCP. Not doing HD yet, but when we do, I’ll buy another AJA product.
I have nothing bad to say about the other choices, but when we had some issues, AJA’s tech support was
awesome.Jason
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The beauty of Media 100 HD or 844x systems is the outboard processing that takes the load off of the computer and sticks it in the 844x/Media 100 processor. Currently, there is no company that can match this is the FCP world. FCP is an awesome editing program, but it is not that fast in terms of rendering compared to the system you have now. Although, if you are working in 720p24 DVCPRO HD, you’ll get plenty of RT effects if you have a fast RAID (which I think you have to have with your 844). It’s when you start to get into uncompressed territory that FCP will slow down a bit. If you need 24p HD editing, FCP is a viable option and you can’t beat the price. I’d recommend what Jason told you to do and sit down at a VAR and edit some footage. See how you like it.
As far as capture cards go, in my book, AJA is the only way to go and especially for DVCPRO HD. As a user of both AJA and Blackmagic, AJA has been the better of the two. It’s a little more expensive, but well worth it. If you need to do SD downconverts, AJA does this with exceptional quality and in real time. I do not think the blackmagic HD boards can do 720p24 real time downconvert (they do support 720p60), and most of their cards do it in software. AJA’s and only the higher end blackmagic cards do the downcoversion in hardware. Also, AJA’s kona 2 (PCI-X) or kona 3 (PCIe) provide real time upconvert as well. The Kona 2&3 series are mostly digital cards in that they don’t have analog input but do have an analog output. The Kona LH series has analog input but you lose the upconvert feature. If you want analog in and upconvert, you should also purchase a AJA io to bring in analog material along with a Kona 2 or 3. The io also doubles as a great SD a/d/d/a converter to feed your Kona for upconvert.
Hope this helps.
Jeremy
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[JeremyG] “Currently, there is no company that can match this is the FCP world.”
Currently no. CineWave was the only card that did this and my old mothballed 4 year old card can still outperform every other card on the market today. Unfortunately it’s no longer supported and has now become the driving force behind the Avid Liquid product line which is probably one of the best PC editing systems out there now. Talk about realtime and multi-format editing capabilities, geez, this thing does it all.
I actually talked to the Avid folks about bringing back a new and improved CineWave card on the Mac but I don’t think you’ll ever see that happen.
We’ll just have to wait and see what the whole FCP xtreme thing will be about when Apple shows it.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[JeremyG] “It’s when you start to get into uncompressed territory that FCP will slow down a bit.”
Whoa! Not true.
I work in 10bit, sometimes 8bit and I have a client that does a lot of DV. The speed of the systems is more or less exactly the same, thats the beauty of FCP.
You might think that the renders are slower too, but in DV there are the same number of pixels to munch through so it is not a straight extrapolation from the data rate, far from it.
Yes there is no ‘outboard’ hardware acceleration, but with the industry moving away from that and onto CPU and GPU power this statement doesn’t really stand.
Peter
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Peter, love ya buddy, but this isn’t true in HD my friend. Renders slow way down especially in After Effects. Until you have worked with the 844x or Media 100 HD for that matter, you have not seen the light. The real time composting, animation & alpha channel support, green screen, and color grading in 844x is truly astounding. Media 100 HD chomps through 1080i renders like I’ve never seen before, but it’s not without it’s problems. It actually accelerates the renders in it’s own completely optimized processor system that is outside of the computer. You can’t believe it until you see it. If this kind of thing was inherent in FCP, everyone would switch, no doubt about it. That’s why I wish Boris or Media 100 or whoever is doing their developing these days would drop their editing software and do hardware development for FCP, but alas, this world is not perfect.
FCP Extreme (if it is in fact a reality) should prove to be interesting, but I bet it’ll be priced out of my league. I surely don’t need 2K support anytime soon, also the hardware requirements will be a tough pill to swallow I’m sure.
Jeremy
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[JeremyG] “FCP Extreme (if it is in fact a reality) should prove to be interesting, but I bet it’ll be priced out of my league. I surely don’t need 2K support anytime soon, also the hardware requirements will be a tough pill to swallow I’m sure.”
Ok, the 844/X doesn’t exist as a new product anymore, but if I recall correctly, it started out as a $50k+ product and ended up around $20k before it was discontinued.
So if you’re comparing 844 and FCP Xtreme (which is rumored to be in the $10k range) how can you say you can afford one but not the other? Just curious.
I work in HD all day almost every day and have to say that FCP perfoms extremely well even running an old Dual 2.0. DVCPro HD, 8bit and 10bit uncompressed with the Kona 2 and the Fibre Channel Med
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[JeremyG] “Renders slow way down especially in After Effects”
Were we not talking FCP?
[JeremyG] “. I surely don’t need 2K support anytime soon,”
FCP already supports 2K 4:4:4
Peter
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I love FCP, it works great for me and my needs. Even in uncompressed HD, it’s all good for me and my needs. The only reason I am bringing this up is to answer the original posters question. FCP will not perform like the 844x, period. For him, it might be hard to go back from a high level of real time composting and performance to nowhere near as much in FCP, that’s all I’m saying. I don’t have an 844x, but I had the opportunity to use one. I couldn’t buy one for myself, but obviously this guy can and perhaps is looking to replace it with all of it’s functionality. If he’s expecting screaming performance, you have to admit that FCP is pretty good, but not great. FCP is an awesome editor, but not a real time compositor, unless you want to fly around a few scaled boxes of DVCPRO HD like a video toaster. I’m looking forward to FCP extreme, I just hope that rumored 10 grand also includes any capture/monitoring hardware. I also hope it’s cheaper than 10 grand because by the time you get the latest greatest computer and RAM that I’m sure it will require, 10K will be 15K really fast, then add hardware on top of that and you’re looking at 18-20K. Suddenly, you’re purchasing an 844x.
Also, that 50K included a high end computer and fast storage if I remember correctly.
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