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Falling seriously out of love with Apple
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Did you tried using Short/Open GOPs on Compressor?
No, those options are greyed out.
Eric, You’re right, I’m not a DVD author. I would just expect better results from a piece of software with the word ‘PRO’ appended than what it gives.
So yes, I do blame the tools – or in this case DVDSP. I’ve seen what passes for ‘beautiful’ from some pros which basically translates as ‘as good as they can get it’ and it’s just not good enough for me. Maybe for you it is, but I don’t work like that.
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But what about all the titles authored in DVDSP that have won awards for quality….there are several. Again, your equity the quality of the stream with DVDSP. They have nothing to do with each other. DVDSP only muxes an encoded stream. DVDSP is an excellent authoring tool but you somehow expect it to output great looking MPEG 2 stream – This it will not do because it is not an encoder. Please drop this mindset and step it up a little.
In a nutshell…you started a thread ripping a tool you know little about. You clearly dont understand MPEG 2 compression theory or what it takes to encode a quality MPEG 2 stream so why would any of us take your word on what you think is good vs. poor quality?
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Eric, what do I not understand? Have you even read my posts or are you just sponsored by Apple?
Let me reiterate. Again.
I do not compress using DVDSP. I compress using other software and then let DVDSP do the authoring.
I do not like the results this gives me. Other software at an equivalent price, or cheaper in many cases, performs a lot better.
Riddle me this. How come DVDSP can’t even do a good job on outputting its own titles? Why did the menu we made yesterday, based on one of the built in templates, come out looking ugly? What, is that expecting too much of Apple to make software that can handle fonts without crunching them to crud?
How come iDVD can encode a perfect SD-DVD straight from ProResHQ with lovely smooth clean graphics but DVDSP can’t even import that format?
The original point of this thread was that FCS is fast on its way to becoming obsolete. Looks like it’s going to take a fair few dinosaurs with it.
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Hi Neil,
Just curious, but what did you test your DVD on?
Also, just a comment about fonts: A general rule of thumb is to use thick san serif fonts for on-screen type, such as Helvetica, Arial, the fonts that don’t have those extra stems on the ends of the letter. If you used a serifed font, then maybe that could be the problem. This is all just a hunch since I haven’t seen your DVD…
Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com -
Rafa, if you’re still following this and I wouldn’t blame you at all if you weren’t, I’ve tinkered some more, got into the Open GOP settings, done some tests and it’s made no discernable difference. The footage looks ok – it always did, but graphics, particularly text are looking soft, fuzzy and pixellated.
Rob, the font was Helvetica! To answer your other question, we have a few systems we use for quality control. The one I most like to use is an old DVD player hooked into a Panasonic LCD via scart. I do this because a) if a DVD looks good on that, it’ll look good on anything and 2) that’s likely to be pretty close to how a lot of clients, or client’s clients will be viewing their DVDs so there’s little point checking things back on a high end system that’s unlikely to be used by regular people.
However, this is all moot now. Encore does the job we need without any of the hassle, so bye-bye DVDSP. You won’t be missed.
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Hand Slapping Forehead!!!
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Finally, someone other than me has said it. Thank you.
Having worked with Avid and Smoke, FCP Suite is beyond aggravating in its shortcomings. The complete lack of development (iPhones and iPads are far, far more profitable) make this soon to be obsolete suite of so-called Pro Apps one step closer to irrelevancy. Anyone remember Shake?
No support for frame sequences? Are you serious? The foundation of Digital Intermediates is not supported (now there’s a plan for obsolescence!). No support for Blu-Ray (Yes, sorry to break it to you, but Blu-Ray won the battle). Weak to no support for shared work environments (like Avid Unity). How many RED projects have been ruined by assistants changing the file names accidently? You call that media management? When Autodesk begs and pleads with you NOT to import RED media using Log and Transfer because it will mess up all the clip names, you should be worried.
The release of FCP 7 left me wondering exactly what changed? That was the most disappointing letdown of the year. They didn’t have a booth at NAB because there is no wind in their sails. There is nothing to show. To be fair, I feel the same about the latest release of Avid 5.0… other than AMA support, I have a hard time noticing what is new and worthy. More of a Service Pack than a version upgrade.
Let’s not get started on QuickTime. The latest version actually removed the ability to export, forcing you to go looking for the old version again… which they actually had the balls to charge $30 for.
While I do find color to be an excellent tool worthy of praise, it is probably because it is nothing but Final Touch by Silicon Color with improved support for XMLs. How great is that when the client decides to change ONE shot after you sent it to Color? What has Apple brought to that table other than devaluing a great product and killing it by letting it gather dust? No ability to color trace. NO SUPPORT FOR RED ROCKET! That alone will kill this product in less than a year or two as everyone migrates to Resolve and Smoke… that DO support Red Rocket.
The only thing Apple Pro Apps have is that they are cheap. In fact, most supporters when backed into a corner end up saying, “But what do you expect for a thousand dollars?”. I expect a lot more when that $1K requires a $30K dongle called a MacPro which will need to be replaced in two years or less because Apple decides overnight that they no longer support ADB ports, Motorola chips, or Firewire, or who-knows what is next to be left out of the latest product offering. And where is the USB 3.0 port on my brand new MacBook Pro?
It’s time we all man up and buy products from companies who are actually working on improving their product line. For offline, Avid. For finishing, Smoke and Resolve. For everything else, the Adobe Suite. These are your best bets for long term return on your investment. If you still think ProApps is the future and want to support Apple, go buy the latest iPhone 4… I highly recommend it, and you won’t regret it later.
The emperor has no clothes!
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[Paul Carlin] “I expect a lot more when that $1K requires a $30K dongle called a MacPro”
Ok, comments like this really are, and I’m sorry to stay it, stupid.
What are you putting into a $30,000 MacPro? Gold plated graphics cards? Diamond Apple Logo inlay?
Mac Pro, 12 core 2.66, 16GB RAM, Dual Graphics Cards, 2 hard drives. $6,149 on the Apple Store Website.
Put an AJA Kona LHi in there. $8,000 now.
[Paul Carlin] “It’s time we all man up and buy products from companies who are actually working on improving their product line. For offline, Avid. For finishing, Smoke and Resolve. For everything else, the Adobe Suite. These are your best bets for long term return on your investment. If you still think ProApps is the future and want to support Apple, go buy the latest iPhone 4… I highly recommend it, and you won’t regret it later.”
You know if you don’t want to use Final Cut Studio, don’t. If you want to buy Avid, Smoke, Resolve go ahead. Or is the fact that Resolve is $999 now a problem? Is that too cheap?
Let’s see, Final Cut Pro for me. What has it done? Started my company in 2001 in a spare bedroom. Moved into a 1,000 square foot space in 2003. Delivered in the neighborhood of 300 to 400 HD broadcast masters to date and counting. Building a 6,000 square foot space to house 8 edit suites, color enhancement suite (with Color and Resolve) to support 4 to 6 original television series.
When Final Cut Pro no longer meets my needs, and I’m not a complete fan of it today by any means, then I’ll switch. But I will not berate those who use it and encourage them to go out and buy consumer products just to make snide comments. You do what you want to do, if it makes you feel so much more superior to put down all of us who have built complete businesses with Final Cut Studio, be my guest.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” featuring Sigourney Weaver coming soon.
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[Neil Weaver] “Rafa, if you’re still following this and I wouldn’t blame you at all if you weren’t, I’ve tinkered some more, got into the Open GOP settings, done some tests and it’s made no discernable difference. The footage looks ok – it always did, but graphics, particularly text are looking soft, fuzzy and pixellated.
Rob, the font was Helvetica! To answer your other question, we have a few systems we use for quality control. The one I most like to use is an old DVD player hooked into a Panasonic LCD via scart. I do this because a) if a DVD looks good on that, it’ll look good on anything and 2) that’s likely to be pretty close to how a lot of clients, or client’s clients will be viewing their DVDs so there’s little point checking things back on a high end system that’s unlikely to be used by regular people.
However, this is all moot now. Encore does the job we need without any of the hassle, so bye-bye DVDSP. You won’t be missed.
“Neil, the whole point of this debate is to point out that in professional hands DVDSP is a very capable and affordable authoring tool.
Using any of the cheesy templates etc etc in the program is un-profession and leads to some of your complaints.
m2v quality depends on the encoder, tossing media at DVDSP to encode (which uses a limited part of Compressors encoding engine) is sloppy workflow.
These auto steps (a hand me down from iDVD) are enticing for new users, that’s really all.
IMHO all assets should be built outside and assembled in DVDSP.Cheers
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[Neil Weaver] “Rafa, if you’re still following this and I wouldn’t blame you at all if you weren’t”
Sure I’m fallowing this.
All is about that you can get a good job with the tools you have.
Rafael
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