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Events: Good or Bad?
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[Oliver Peters] “From a personal level, I like having media linked. But that’s because I’m meticulous about handling media at the Finder level. “
[John Heagy] “That’s my point. In FCP7 there is no “You can then…”
Events for the sole purpose of enabling a project to link to media is complexity with no value.”
[John Heagy] “That’s a nightmare scenario in an organized shared environment!”
I think we need back up here, fellers.
Part of the problem is that not one of us is talking in specifics. I feel like we are talking over each other.
Events are stored in Folders. You dupe that folder, and you dupe an Event. You can then mount that new folder as its own San Location.
There are problems.
Since render files are stored with the Event as well as any transcodes, that folder can be large. You have to be aware of this workflow, and certainly FCPX needs some more tools to help with these types of workflows.
As far as sharing metadata, it’s all there. We have had discussions before about how to apply certain metadata to existing clips (Arri Reel, for instance), and once you apply metadata in FCPX, there are now XML presets that you can create to send metadata along with the footage in an external XML file. This is new and unique to FCPX, you could not do this with FCP7 as fast and as easily.
Nothing new here, same as FCP7, with a few more growing pain caveats, for sure.
As far as working meticulously in the Finder with aliased Events, this is also possible.
The good thing? Oliver, You can take a shottily Finder organized project, and reorganize it in the Finder without FCPX even caring, all media stays linked/aliased. I guess you can call that a concession?
And John, I think we are talking about different organization. I am talking about footage organized within the Event. So I can take a messy Event and clean it up for my purposes leaving the other person’s mess for them to clean up. You see, I can have both. You, may be talking about the Finder organization as the “nightmare”?
If you are getting a finished sequence for finishing, FCPX has some really good tools to make sure you get all the media you need.
You cannot, no matter how hard you try, save everyone from themselves. FCPX still needs the operator to work intelligently and know what is going on behind the curtain. With FCPX’s tools though, they are actually fairly decent (albeit limited and rudimentary) at gathering all kinds of media and sending it in tact to another location be it a hard drive, computer, or volume.
Sometimes the Finder is better, sometimes you don’t have to leave FCPX to perform these functions, and yes, it is a different workflow.
Jeremy
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[Sandeep Sajeev] “As a working editor, it is a valid concern. I’m struggling to see anything in his post that is deserving of such a condescending reply.”
Bill’s hardly a “working editor” so he’s unaware of what that world is really like.
[Sandeep Sajeev] “Now it seems like people who post here questioning the slightest thing get flamed.”
Because woe be to him that dares question the love of a mega-corporation.
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[Gary Huff] “Bill’s hardly a “working editor” so he’s unaware of what that world is really like.”
Interesting observation.
I suppose the fact that I’ve fed and clothed my family for the past twenty five years producing, and yes, editing, videos falls short of the “working editor” designation in your estimation.
So heck, what say we determine some solid defensible standards for all. I looked you up on IMDb. If I got the right guy, I see see listings for two “shorts” as editor and notably, no A.C.E. designation after your name.
So help me out here. Presuming I haven’t got you mixed up with someone else – what makes YOU a working editor after 2 short films and me NOT after I’ve delivered well over 300 finished paid self-edited videos for clients over my career?
I’d just like to get my thinking straight here.
Is your contention that only BIG system editors are REAL editors?
If so, how do YOU fit into that narrative so I should take your points to heart?
And does this mean we need to setup a “pyramid of qualifications” system here on the forum so we know who’s “pro-er” than the other poster?
Just let me know, Gary, so I can figure out where I fit in and where you fit in and so I can better know my place.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Sandeep Sajeev] “The OP has a concern. As a working editor, it is a valid concern. “
Sandeep,
It’s a completely valid concern. That means one thing for one class of editor – and completely different things for many other classes.
I’ve tried to be a voice since day one for people who are working professionals (defined as those who make their primary living exclusively in video production) but not always “large facility” working professionals.
I believe the entire craft of editing is getting broader and wider and includes more different types of people who do more different types of work then ever before.
And so I’m a bit bristly when anyone assumes that the ONLY proper way to judge a tool like FCP-X is in the light of what a large facility editor might need.
Look up at the top of this thread. There’s a robust discussion between and about the needs of facility class editors.
And here’s my little thread about what someone sees as the value of X that is wonderful now and MAY grow into something that facilities editors would want to know about some day.
What’s wrong with that?
If the tone bugs you, sorry. This is the one place I feel kinda empowered to let loose because for well over a year we’ve seen that there are AMPLE folk here who will robustly push back at anything I say – which means I can be a bit edgier to keep the entertainment value higher. (cuz obviously I’m the ONLY guy who ever does that here, right? RIGHT?)
So load up and fire away.
Thats part of the fun of “or NOT.”
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Joseph W. Bourke] “It doesn’t matter much that the water’s hot if you can’t get it out of the faucet, eh?”
Totally true.
Thankfully, I’m delivering more video faster out of X in my world where I need more a garden hose than a fire hose or a dam spill way. – so the taps that I need are flowing quite strongly thank you very much.
: )
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Bill Davis] ” which means I can be a bit edgier to keep the entertainment value higher. (cuz obviously I’m the ONLY guy who ever does that here, right? RIGHT?)
“I don’t know about you – but I’m getting a back hander from the cow. fresh jersey cream, and some really nice gloucestershire red.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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‘Tis the season to be gnarly…it seems. This seems to be the only forum on the COW where everyone has a self-important, self-appointed, agenda. While I thoroughly enjoy reading it, I feel almost sorry for those who have to swing their b*lls around and tout what they have or haven’t done, as opposed to what someone else has or hasn’t done. It doesn’t matter – we’re all a trivia question in the long run.
We’re three days away from Christmas, folks…this is supposed to be a season of light…not the season of “the spotlight’s on me”. Merry Christmas…Happy Chanukah…Ramadan Mubarak…and Joyous Kwanzaa…and if I’ve missed anyone, Happy Happy…
Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com -
[Bill Davis] “I suppose the fact that I’ve fed and clothed my family for the past twenty five years producing, and yes, editing, videos falls short of the “working editor” designation in your estimation.”
Didn’t you mention a while back that you’d never really edited much until FCPX came out (instead you were more writer/producer)? If so, that would mean you’ve been editing for a year and a half now.
[Bill Davis] “I looked you up on IMDb. If I got the right guy, I see see listings for two “shorts” as editor and notably, no A.C.E. designation after your name.”
I’m not in a union. Not sure that it means anything.
[Bill Davis] “Is your contention that only BIG system editors are REAL editors”
No, just that they sit in front of the machine from start to finish. Your typically asinine comments, plus the comment about not having really edited beforehand, say that your experience isn’t exactly varied enough. Which is fine. But you keep wanting to shoehorn your limited experience into other people’s, which is why you have the reputation that you do.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “The good thing? Oliver, You can take a shottily Finder organized project, and reorganize it in the Finder without FCPX even caring, all media stays linked/aliased. I guess you can call that a concession?”
Huh? Not true at all. I just tested this. Took a file (linked) from a folder on one drive and moved it to the desktop. Deleted the original. The clip is offline in X. Copied the file from the desktop back to the original location and it relinked automatically. That part works about like “legacy” but definitely not in the way you imply.
OTOH, if you modify that media file (name, length, embedded metadata, etc.) it is nearly impossible to get X to manually relink. “Legacy” would do this but complain first. The reason you can’t relink after modification is because Apple buttoned down the media management in a very Avid-like way. That’s a good thing, but does remove some versatility that we had with “legacy”.
It gets back to what I said before. The way Apple INTENDED people to work with media files is to copy them into the Events, because ONLY those folders are what X truly has control over. They permitted linking because that’s how people like to work, but there is definitely a risk – which was there in “legacy”. That was something they were trying to mitigate in the design of X.
I use linking almost exclusively, too, but the risk enters in the two-editor-sneakernet scenario. Editor A starts the job on an external drive. All camera media is on that external drive along with Events and Projects. But, all music, stills and graphics are on the internal hard drive. Editor B gets the external drive to continue the job. Camera media is there, but music and stills are offline (though in some case X copies these to the Events anyway). The danger of Finder-based organization, which Apple sought to fix.
Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Gary Huff] “Didn’t you mention a while back that you’d never really edited much until FCPX came out (instead you were more writer/producer)? If so, that would mean you’ve been editing for a year and a half now.”
Bill’s a long-time FCP user (v1, I think), community member, and production magazine writer.
Bill’s self-contained workflows give him a different perspective than others of us here may have, but he is absolutely an experienced professional.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events
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