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Editors opinion – Panasonic HPX-300 v. Sony EX3 footage
I shoot, I edit, I produce, one man shop… looking to buy a new camera, yes I know this is the FCP forum.
What do some folks here think of the footage from these two cameras. I’m not looking for opinions on workflow or camera ergonomics. I’m looking for thoughts and opinions on what some people think of the quality of the footage from these two cameras. I understand that there are different variables here, but if one can relay what they think of some of the footage that was professionally shot they have edited I would appreciate it. What pros and cons have people seen? what actually holds up better after rendering, grading, rendering some more, exporting, transcoding, etc… Compression artifacts especially during movements or low light.Thanks.
PHIL Yunker
PHIL YUNKER
Yunker Video Production Services
http://www.philyunker.com -
25 Replies
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Panasonic AVC-Intra codec is hands down superior in every way over the Sony EX-3. Compression artifacts galore on the EX cameras on everything we’ve ever received here. And color reproduction is so much better on the Panny cameras because they’re 4:2:2 cameras.
Even the DVCPro HD P2 cameras are superior to the EX cameras both in picture quality and color reproduction.
I’ll take pretty much any Panasonic camera image over Sony EX and XDCAM cameras.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Walter,
Thanks for YOUR reply. I read on your blog that you shot a pilot with the hpx-300 and looked like a hvx-200(A) form the pics. How did the 300 work in low light?
I own a hvx-200A and the low light abilities are, well, let’s say frustrating at times as is the lens, but the 300 is a different camera.
Also, when you say compression artifacts, are you referring to the pixelation during movement? I tested an EX3 and say this when I zoomed out. Also, on an Animal Planet series (not to be named as I don’t want people thinking i’m bashing them as I really like this particular show) I see this compression alot.
HAve you edited with any footage shot with and EX3 and a Nano Flash?oh, did you use the stock lens on the 300 for your pilot, could you see it breath? I tested a 300 and the lens was awful, but I know this is why the camera is under $10K
Thanks again.
PHIL Yunker
Phil Yunker:
Yunker Video Production Services
Indianapolis, IN
https://www.philyunker.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/philyunkerPHIL YUNKER
Yunker Video Production Services
http://www.philyunker.com -
[Phil Yunker] “I read on your blog that you shot a pilot with the hpx-300 and looked like a hvx-200(A) form the pics. How did the 300 work in low light?”
That WAS a 200. We had a 200 and a 300 on the shoot. It performed about as well as to be expected in low light. There are not many pro HD cameras that are superior in low light. You have to go to prosumer level for better low light performance.
[Phil Yunker] “Also, when you say compression artifacts, are you referring to the pixelation during movement?”
Nope, I’m talking compression all over the place. We shot another pilot with the EX1 and EX3 and did a scene outside in front of trees. The trees were a complete mess of compression artifacts. Closeups are fine with those cameras, but once you go wide, you really see compression hits with the more information on the screen.
Also, you see a HUGE color difference since the EX cameras do not have as much color reproduction as the Pannys.
[Phil Yunker] “HAve you edited with any footage shot with and EX3 and a Nano Flash?”
EX3 yes. Nano, no.
[Phil Yunker] “oh, did you use the stock lens on the 300 for your pilot, could you see it breath? I tested a 300 and the lens was awful, but I know this is why the camera is under $10K”
We had the stock lens and did not have any issues with it at all quite honestly. It was a loaner from our VAR to test out. If I were to purchase the camera, I would most likely go with some Canon lenses.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Walter,
thanks for the info and your insight. Interesting, Everything you said makes sense and supports some if not most of my findings. Looks like I will go with the Panny.Anyone else with any thoughts on this?
Thanks.
PHIL
PHIL YUNKER
Yunker Video Production Services
http://www.philyunker.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/philyunker -
HPX-300 or HPX-500. If you have the money, go for the 500.
I have the 500 and 170 and both work very well in low light. With any video camera a little bit of light goes a long way. Manipulating the scene files is a must.
Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group -
Phil,
I would encourage you to also seek out opinions from the Sony and Panasonic forums on the Cow. It’s difficult to make blanket statements about both cameras that apply to every situation. Additionally, there is a big difference between the quality of the image the cameras are capable of producing when sending the signal out via HDSDI vs. using the onboard solid state recording system.
The XDCAM EX codec is full-raster long-GOP 4:2:0 @ 35Mbps. It’s significantly better than HDV, but technically inferior to AVC-Intra. The camera itself is a different matter. The EX series cameras are capable of producing stunning images – their image sensors are full-raster 1080p, and have stunning detail and clarity. If the onboard XDCAM EX compression to the SxS cards is not of sufficient quality, you can achieve better results using a nanoFlash or other 4:2:2 recording method via the EX3’s HDSDI output.
If you’re not familiar with it already, I would highly recommend that you check out Philip Bloom’s website. He is a DP who has extensive experience with many different cameras, and has created some very compelling imagery using the EX1 and EX3 combined with Letus 35mm adapters.
https://philipbloom.co.uk/reviews/cool-camera-review/
Good luck.
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[Alan Okey] “Additionally, there is a big difference between the quality of the image the cameras are capable of producing when sending the signal out via HDSDI vs. using the onboard solid state recording system.”
That’s true of all HD cameras. But are you going to carry about an external recorder on all your field shoots? It’s great for static and controlled situation to bring something like the AJA KiPro along to record everything in ProRes.
But if you’re talking about recording to the camera’s internal recorders, Panasonic DVCPro HD and AVC Intra quality are far superior to that of the EX lineup. 4:2:0 Long GOP vs 4:2:2 is a no brainer for me.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
Steve,
thanks for the info, I have read some of your other posts about the 500 and other Panasonic cameras.
Not sure about the 500 since it does not have AVC-Intra 100 and I would have to think (as I posted in the HVX-HPX forum) that the 500 might be on it’s way out or hopefully revised/ updated with AVC-Intra.Thanks.
PHIL
PHIL YUNKER
Yunker Video Production Services
http://www.philyunker.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/philyunker -
Walter,
I agree with you AVC-Intra being a superior codec to XDCAM EX, but I’ll have to disagree about Panasonic cameras always being better. I’m also not a fan of DVCPRO HD’s thin raster compression scheme, although I do appreciate that it is 4:2:2.
For general use, I prefer the EX1 over the HVX-200 or HVX-200A, despite DVCPPRO HD being the better codec. The EX1 resolves more detail than the HVX-200, and I prefer its true manual focus mode, which is lacking on the 200. For a greenscreen shoot, I’d use the HDSDI out and record ProRes 422 direct to disk vs. using the SxS cards.
When a friend of mine was in the market for a camera in the EX1/HVX-200 price range, we tested both cameras extensively and determined that the EX1 was the overall winner for his needs. We preferred its sharper image, manual focus lens, better low-light performance and greater codec efficiency (memory capacity vs. recording time). He doesn’t shoot the type of footage that would tend to bring out the deficiencies in the XDCAM EX codec (fast motion, etc.), so the EX1 was the best choice in his particular case.
Stepping up to the next level in price, I agree that Panasonic has the overall advantage. I just wanted to offer an alternative opinion.
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Alan,
Thanks. Yes I have posted and read through a lot of posts on both the Panasonic hvx / hpx and sony XDCAM / EX forums and have asked questions there. I’m posting here to get opinions and pro advice from editors that get all sorts of footage in all the time, such as Walter. I know the people in the HVx /HPX and the EX3 mean well but there will be some bias from someone who owns and operates a camera.
Sending a signal out via HDSDI would not be in my immediate plans, and hauling a AJA KIpro around doesn’t seem pratical to me for a lot of what I do. However, that is good info to know.
Yes, I’m very aware of Philip Bloom’s site, he rocks, as so does his work. That’s were I turn for my info on my Canon 7D.
Thanks again for you input.PHIL
PHIL YUNKER
Yunker Video Production Services
http://www.philyunker.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/philyunker
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