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Editing scenario
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“[Walter Soyka] “What’s the harm in storing a single point as a range that extends to the media limit on the other side?”
I think what’s getting missed here is that most editors use “persistent” i/o points for TEMPORARY information. It’s not intended as a replacement for subclips. Instead, I want to be able to come back to the same clip at exactly the same point I last marked an “in”. Favorites and/or subclipping are an extra unnecessary step in that process.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “you can’t perform a backtime edit that uses a single O in the browser.”
Am I not understanding?
Make an in and out selection in the timeline, then make an out-only selection in the browser (this will automatically select from the beginning of the clip to the end, as you know).
Shift-Q or Shift-D will edit into the timeline, matching the out points, and extending backward to the timeline’s in point. The browser’s “in point” will be ignored.
Isn’t that what you want?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Simon Ubsdell] “Replace is the single most useful edit function in traditional NLEs as it saves several steps on a huge variety of edits, as well of course as enabling sync point editing. “
You mean playhead replace? Yeah, that’d be nice to have back as there is currently no function that works that way in FCPX.
Since that has not much to do with the database (at least I don’t think) it seems that could be added.
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Of course I meant Shift-Q, not Shift-W. Please pardon my typo. I’ve updated my original post.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
Phillip Hodgetts is obviously a really smart guy. Definitely smarter than me when it comes to programming. I mean, he’s the guy who figured out how to do the One Big Thing Apple said was impossible so he clearly knows his stuff.
But even though it’s been a while, I used to program at a pretty deep level so I understand this stuff too. And frankly, his arguments sound like a load of BS to me.
[Phillip Hodgetts] “From the programming point of view you’d have to create a third category to go with “Favorite” and “Keyword Range” that would be “Persistent I/O” points. How do they relate to the other two? Are you prepared for a complete rebuild of the database structure to accommodate it?”
So what? Create another column in the database. Call it Foo. BFD. Seriously, if something this simple requires a complete restructure of the database, then the database design is seriously messed up. Any new feature impacts the database. This is trivial.
Want to talk about something deep? Let’s discuss project bloat and compound clips. Still completely unchanged after almost a year. Why? This is the kind of database stuff I’d be really worried about.
[Phillip Hodgetts]“What happens when a Favorite and I/O range coincide (there’s an existing bug related to two keyword ranges covering exactly the same frames losing notes, for example).”
I described it here, but I’ll write it again so people don’t have to look:
It’s not freaking rocket science!
[David Lawrence] “Just look at what happens to a range on the timeline when you click in the event browser. It remains but grays out. Just do the exact same thing for clips in the event browser. Gray out ranges for all clips except the one in focus. The clip in focus is the one that get edited into the timeline. Problem solved. You’re welcome.”
[Phillip Hodgetts] “…Does FCP X edit the keyword range to the Project, or the In/Out range? Or some intersection of the two? When does I/O take precedence over a Favorite or keyword range? It becomes an incredibly complex matrix of when one takes priority and in an app, from a company where the main focus is “simplify”, that would be anathema.”
It edits the range that’s currently in focus. Why is this so difficult to understand?
What happens if you select a favorite? OK, now drag the handles and change the start and end. OMG!!! What takes precedence now??? It’s the Exact. Same. Thing.
[Phillip Hodgetts] “In my opinion it’s a throwback thought for people who haven’t yet made the mental transition to FCP X”
In my opinion, this attitude says more about why Hodgetts thinks it can’t be done than anything else. But hey, what do I know?
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Oliver Peters] “I think what’s getting missed here is that most editors use “persistent” i/o points for TEMPORARY information. It’s not intended as a replacement for subclips. Instead, I want to be able to come back to the same clip at exactly the same point I last marked an “in”. Favorites and/or subclipping are an extra unnecessary step in that process.”
Exactly.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Walter Soyka] “I just think that marking IOPs should carry more weight than marking a selection, and I don’t think the app should nuke that user-created data irretrievably when the user simply clicks away to select something else.
But I guess that’s just backwards thinking.”
Regardless of how Philip answers post on his own blog, let’s jump to the point, and that is, he has a great one about how the database might work.
I guess when I use an look at the actual browser in FCPX, I look at how many ways you can display information.
That one clip that I am marking in and out on can be in a number of “places”. When it is in a number of places, the information is aggregated. So if a clip is in multiple keywords (and it’s always in the top level of the event), both of those keywords show up on the clip, no matter where I’m viewing it. if I add a marker, that marker shows up wherever that clip is. Once I change it anywhere, that information is everywhere.
Now imagine ins and outs. If I wanted to mark in on the clip in one keyword collection, and store that.
Then I add a new in and out to the clip at the top level of the event, and store that.
So, what if I search that clip in a text based function, which in and out point does it retrieve? From which keyword?
That’s where Favorites come in. They are basically committing an in and out to the clip, that is updated everywhere. Don’t want it anymore? Select it and hit ‘u’ (or delete form list)
Can Apple make the in and out stick on every clip without user interaction? I have no idea. For now, you have to do it manually.
You cannot select a clip in the Browser without setting a range (you can skim a clip, but that doesn’t require touching it), unless you select multiple clips. Perhaps, therein lies the problem.
As oddly enough, if you have a favorite selected (and the browser is sorted by favorites) and then you set the browser by “all clips”, the in and out remains, and the opposite is also true, select a range (that has multiple favorites) and sort the browser by favorites, all of the clips are selected.
Deselect them all.
Sort the browser by favorites, then select multiple clips (command-click).
Now sort the browser by all clips. See what happens?
At any rate, today, right now, if you want to use FCPX, and want to hold on to an in/out range, then favorites are what is needed.
Oliver, how are we doing in helping you out?
Good? Good.
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[Walter Soyka] “Am I not understanding?
Make an in and out selection in the timeline, then make an out-only selection in the browser (this will automatically select from the beginning of the clip to the end, as you know).
Shift-Q or Shift-D will edit into the timeline, matching the out points, and extending backward to the timeline’s in point. The browser’s “in point” will be ignored.
Isn’t that what you want?”
ooops, my mistake based on skim-reading the daft FCPX manual.
Example: Make a backtimed three-point edit
Set start and end points for the source selection in the Event Browser.
In the Timeline, position the skimmer (or the playhead, if the skimmer is not present) at the location in your project where you want the clip to end.
Do either of the following:
To backtime the selection using a connect edit: Press Shift-Q.
To backtime the selection using an overwrite edit: Press Shift-D.
“Set start and end points”???? How can you do anything else????
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] ”
You cannot select a clip in the Browser without setting a range”This is the bit that I find problematic and it’s significant because it goes to the very root of how FCPX works – and of course how iMovie was designed which is why we are where we are today. It’s a limitation in the architecture.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[David Lawrence] “Want to talk about something deep? Let’s discuss project bloat and compound clips. Still completely unchanged after almost a year. Why? This is the kind of database stuff I’d be really worried about.”
What’s most important about this is performance.
I see you haven’t played around with Dynamic Link a bunch in Pr and AE yet?
Bloat is one thing, how it handles bloat is another.
FCP 10.0.4 (in my experience, perhaps not yours) handles the bloat much better.
Also, it seems to be FCPX’s autosave the really slows it down.
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