DVCPRO HD workflow question

[Walter Biscardi]

Easiest thing to do is simply capture everything at 59.94. The stuff shot at different frames like 24 will retain their “look” but you’ll be able to edit everything in one timeline.

If you’re trying to pull slow mo material, then you need to use the Frame Rate Converter to convert the footage to your editing frame rate.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Steve Galbraith]

Thanks for the reply and info Walter!

I thought I may have been able to do what you suggested since everything ends up being recorded in 59.94 when its all said and done. Although you mentioned the clips as being able to retain their “look.” Will there be a noticeable difference in visaul quality or asthetic if I bring everything in 59.94?

Thanks again!

Steve

[Walter Biscardi]

[Unclejunebug] “Will there be a noticeable difference in visaul quality or asthetic if I bring everything in 59.94?”

Nothing that myself, the producers or the networks have noticed.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Steve Galbraith]

Excellent! Thanks for your time and your help!

And now for another question. Would this all still hold true if I was wanting to end up with a movie in 24p?

[Walter Biscardi]

[Unclejunebug] “And now for another question. Would this all still hold true if I was wanting to end up with a movie in 24p?”

If that’s your final output, you would probably want to conform everything to 24 during the edit. I’ve never output to 24p film so perhaps someone who has can chime in on that one.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Gary Adcock]

[Unclejunebug] “And now for another question. Would this all still hold true if I was wanting to end up with a movie in 24p?”

if you are planning a 24p delivery you need to edit at 24. If you cut to a 60p timebase you will most likely edit multiple times on redundant frames and that could possibly double or triple your online / DI for filmout.

Note that you will have to edit the content as 8 or 10bit and not as DVCPROHD for a film out. That wiull require a fairly large and very fast storage to handle the amount fo data you are working with. The compression artifacts in DVCPROHD are compounded when you are talking about having your output delivered to a 60ft screen on celluloid.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Luisito]

Hello Gary and Walter,

Thanks to Unclejunebug for starting this thread. I have a related question to ask.

Here is my situation:

I am assistant editing on a documentary shot on two different cameras: the Panasonic HDX-900 and the Panasonic AG-HVX-200 using P2 cards and Firestores. I have been *told* that the cameras were both shooting at 720-24p. However when I started to sort through the footage in Final Cut Pro version 5.1.2, I found out that there was footage with a video rate of 59.94 (the bulk of it) and 23.98. The capture preset is set at DVCPRO HD 720p24 48kHz and the sequence preset is set at DVCPRO HD 720p24. However, every time I create a sequence I change the sequence settings to 59.94 because most of the footage is at that video rate.

Naturally, the two frame rates can’t co-exist on a timeline without one of the frame rates being rendered. The editor wants all the footage to be of the same frame rate so no rendering is required. How do I achieve this while maintaining sync sound and timecode? My hunch is to stay in the 59.94 video rate and somehow find a way to convert the 23.98 footage to 59.94, but is there a simple way to do this (asides from rendering in the timeline)?

Thanks a million for your help!!!
Luis

[Shane Ross]

You can use the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate converter to convert the 59.94 footage into 23.98 normal motion. Check the box for “remove duplicate frames.” This will really only work if it was truely shot 24p. If the camera was set to shoot 720p60 then I don’t think this option will work, as no frames have been flagged as duplicates.

Did most of the 59.94 footage come from the HVX and Firestore? If so, and it was set to shoot 24p, you might be able to do this. Again, if it was shot with the Varicam flagged as 59.94, then this might not work.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Luisito]

Hello Shane,

Thanks for your quick reply.

Let me clarify something – none of the footage whether it be the 23.98 or the 59.94 plays slo-mo. No varicam was used. I have created a separate project for each video frame rate and the clips play at normal speed. I have told the editor to use the 59.94 project as the master project and I have brought in all of the 23.98 footage as a giant sequence and rendered that.

The 23.98 footage has had the dupe frames removed but in the 59.94 project the footage has a pulldown (dupe frames exist).

Since I was brought on to the project after most of the shooting and ingesting of footage, I am uncertain which video footage came from which camera. I was present when footage from one session was imported (from P2 and firestore drives) and the footage came in as 59.94 in the 59.94 project.

One major issue that I do not understand yet is this: Is it the camera setting that determines the frame rate, or is it set during the import process (ie, in the final cut capture settings?). Is it possible that the two cameras were recording at the same frame rate (ie, 24p) but the footage was imported (at different times) using different settings? If the answer is yes, then is it possible to somehow convert the 23.98 footage to 59.94?

Thank you again for your help!
Luis

[Shane Ross]

[Luisito] “none of the footage whether it be the 23.98 or the 59.94 plays slo-mo”

I figured. Usually you have to convert it to do that. We have footage that is 23.98, and some that was shot 59.94 so that we could either use it normal speed, or slow motion if we felt like it. And yes, when I drop the 59.94 footage into a sequence where most of my footage is 23.98, I render. It’s fast, so it is no skin off my back.

[Luisito] “s it the camera setting that determines the frame rate, or is it set during the import process (ie, in the final cut capture settings?)”

Camera determines the frame rate. This is true for both the Varicam and the HVX. Although you can capture 24p footage from the varicam at 59.94 or as 23.98…there is no way you can do that with the HVX. It’s way or the highway.

[Luisito] “Is it possible that the two cameras were recording at the same frame rate (ie, 24p) but the footage was imported (at different times) using different settings?”

No. Most likely user error caused one camera op to not check BOTH places you have to check to set the camera to 24PN. Or, if you recorded onto a Firestore, 23.98 (24PN) is unavailable.

[Luisito] “If the answer is yes, then is it possible to somehow convert the 23.98 footage to 59.94?”

Not to my knowledge…but I haven’t tried. You could try Compressor, but then you lose your timecode, and that isn’t good.

Have you tried using the Frame Rate Converter to convert the 59.94 to 23.98?

What is your final delivery master going to be on? What format?

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net