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DV25 – DV50 workflow questions
Realize this may be relatively simple stuff, but here goes:
Editing a short that was shot with a Panasonic DVX-100A… originally captured at DV25. Now that we have our cut finished, I’d like to color correct and output a DVD screener at the best possible quality on my firewire-only setup. We *will* be conforming uncompressed 10-bit when comes time to create exhibition master.
But, for now, I’m wondering if it’s best to:
A) Recapture at DV50 – Tried this with PowerBook 1.67, FCP 5.1, Firewire to camera, FireWire 800 LaCie drive, and it didn’t work – too many dropped frames. Shouldn’t this work (theoretically)? Seems to me that this would be the best of the 3 options.
B) Transcode DV25 material to DV50, and then color correct.
C) Just pull DV25 material into a DV50 timeline, and color correct there.
Thanks in advance!
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13 Replies
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You won’t gain any quality from the format you shot trying to upconvert it… nor will you be able to playback anything but DV25 SD in any event. Stay right where you are and color correct it I’d say.
Jerry
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“You won’t gain any quality from the format you shot trying to upconvert it… nor will you be able to playback anything but DV25 SD in any event. Stay right where you are and color correct it I’d say.”
Is this really indeed true? My understanding was that color correction is a process that involves processing/rendering, and that you wanted to do that in the best possible color space you can…. seems that correcting in DV50 space (4:2:2) would be better than DV25 (4:1:1).
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It is true that color correcting in a 4:2:2 color space would be better than the 4:1:1 DV has…what Jerry might be saying is that the differences would be minor. You really wouldn’t be able to tell the difference unless you really get close and scrutinize the footage.
The quality you gain is minor and might not be worth the effort…in our opinion. If you still want to do it that way, there is no stopping you. Just saying that you won’t notice much difference.
Try it and see for yourself. CC in DV then CC the same footage (or just copy and paste it into a DV 50 sequence and render) and then look at both. I bet you can’t tell the diff.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
Well you’re right and wrong. If you shoot DV, the colorspace is 4.1.1 and upconverting it to a 4:2:2 color space doesn’t add a durn thing… Things like graphics might look better if done the way you are suggesting, if they are created in that space, but DV isn’t going to look any better at all.
All rendering is going to be as good as it can be given the limitations of the source material itself (i.e. the camera masters determined the information recorded for each pixel when you shoot it. DV doesn’t record 4:2:2 and upconverting adds no more color information whatsoever to it. If it did, the camera manufacturers wouldn’t ever sell a DVCPRO50 capable camera…
Think of it this way. Whatever colors space the material is created originally in, from that point on, it’s as good as it will ever be. All rendering in FCP is done in the same quality. The same rendering engine is used in ALL formats. It’s a good one to as they go…
Jerry
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Yep… I do realize that the difference between DV25 and DV50 may or may not be perceptible, but I’m just wondering if you have to do the task anyway (color-correct for the screener), why not do it in the highest quality you can – y’know, way of the Zen Warrior, living pure of heart and all…
I did a doc earlier this year where we offlined DV25, and then conformed at uncompressed 10-bit (standard def), and believe me, I could *definitely* tell the difference between DV25 and uncompressed 10-bit.
Thanks for the feedback, Shane!
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Well, uncompressed 10-bit, yeah, you will see a difference. I also suspect that you had it colored by a professional who no doubt used professional tools. Even if the professional used FCPs built in tools you will see a huge difference.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
It was colored by a professional…
Me.
Using FCP.
No, probably nowhere near as good as a *real* colorist with a DaVinci, but…. I think it turned out well…
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There you go then. And there I go making assumptions.
As I said, you will see a difference with 10-bit from DV…not so much with DV50 from DV. But it will be better.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
I don’t understand how this could be. How will this improve things? I do understand anything created in 4.2.2. will look better, but if the information isn’t in the original shoot, you can’t add any information… only degrade it by recompressing it in another codec. There is no “stronger” render engine used in higher resolutions so I still don’t think there’s going to be a difference. I think if you upconvert using say compressor, you are costing yourself a digital generation, so in theory you actually are degrading the original source material.
In all rendering in FCP, the renders are done in an uncompressed color space as far as I know…
Jerry
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Well, here’s what’s going through my head (along with all kinds of random flotsam and jetsam)…
True, you can’t *add* resolution that isn’t there… so if the DV25 footage were being screened as is, then straight upconverting is pointless.
But, color-correcting (or anything else that involves rendering that footage, be it a composite, key, motion track, even a re-size and or re-position) involves rendering.
*My* understanding is that, when it comes to color, you want to do that processing in the best color space you can. While, yes, the original footage is 4:1:1, if I want to add more red, say, to the scene, wouldn’t I want to process *that* in 4:2:2 space? Or even 4:4:4, if I could.
Isn’t this why independent docs, for instance, take their original DV footage, upconvert to HD (using Teranex) and master in 4:4:4 color space to D5 or HDCAM SR before doing their film out? As opposed to simply doing all their processing/color correction in DV space, make a DVCam master, dub that to HDCAM SR, and call it a day?
Again, I’m not a certified expert in the realm of workflows, but I’m just trying to reiterate what *my* understanding currently is… I’d love to find out whether my understanding is misguided or not….
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