DV footage blown up to cinema screen size – possible?

[Marsha Foyle]

Thank you for your comments.

I just spoke to someone at a 16mm conversion lab and they told me unless I have around £40,000 pounds to spare for a decent film camera and lenses, to forget it. The lady also told me that she receives many DV tapes to be converted up to film/hd? can’t remember, for film festivals so now I know if I do something on DV it is not a total waste, my film does have a future. She also said she had seen DV blown up on the big screen and it looked good.

The most important thing she told me though was that for what I wanted to do – short, 1 minute or so duration pieces of film, she advised and had seen amazing results when blown up to cinema screen size simply from using a 35mm digital stills camera tethered to a computer, and particularly, with regards to what I want to do; 1 minute movies, she said that this would be perfect for the job since they also have a built in memory card where you can shoot a video.

She said to forget about HD unless you have at least 4GB of RAM in your computer.

What do you think? This 35mm digital stills camera seems like the way forward for me although she did say it would cost about £1000 for a good one.

[Mark Suszko]

I would not go with the stills camera thing yet. I think it requires too much tinkering for a beginner, has the same demands, if not more, on an editing system, and you need to devote your attention elsewhere. Something like the Panasonic HVX200, used by a competent shooter may be adequate, IMO.

Get away from the idea of owning a camera, go talk to the local pro rental places and ask for some hands-on demos in the shop, which are generally free. Work on raising the money for the rentals and creating your accounts with these suppliers. I would not shoot on 16mm, the costs are just out of your league.

He’s not for everyone, and some of his stuff is just raving crazy, but you might want to look at some of the online free “courses” of DOV Simmons for some inspiration. Particularly about budgeting and timing.

[Marsha Foyle]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice but I am going to get a new computer and a stills camera now. Rental is too much hassle and very expensive. I want my own kit as I will be shooting a lot.

Regards.

Mac OSX

[Mike Smith]

I’d get a few other lab opinions if I were you.

DV blown up looks horrible, whatever your contact says. Ask her to show you some stuff projected on a cinema screen at her lab, and see for yourself. Ask her to project samples of other formats – 35mm. 16mmm, HD to film transfers for comparison.

You don’t need to buy a (16mm film) camera and lens set. You’d just need to hire or borrow one. The costs come in film stock and processing, and transfer to video for editing. Some places offer freebies to starting-out students if asked nicely and they like you and your project (Joe Dunton Cameras at Elstree might be a place to start, Samuelson’s is very big and has all you need). You can also try to beg stock from the stock companies – Kodak and Fuji.

If you shoot video on a stills camera, the video will be very compressed. If you can tether to a computer and capture that way, you should use an HD camera and a capture system like e.g. Cineform’s https://www.cineform.com or, probably harder for you, AJA or Blackmagi cards and a very fast disc array. Or could you could record to tape or disc (HDV is cheapest HD and a lot better than DV, but still hard to edit with).

You will then have the issues of editing high definition, where you do need lots of RAM, though be aware that 32 bit edit apps cannot normally address (use) more than 2 Gigabytes of RAM.

If you are in East Anglia, the fdmx project in Cambridge might lend you an HD camera and let you use their edit system foc if they like you and your project. http://www.fdmx.co.uk

[Mark Suszko]

Marsha, you might do well to visit the indie and documentary forum here on the COW for some second opinions.

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Marsha, it’s Mr. Grumpy.

1) The dSLR market is new. And it has limited audio. The two famous cameras right now are the Canon EOS D5 MK II ($2600 US without lens), and the Nikon D90. But these cameras have limited audio and will require a seperate sound person. They work with 4Gig flash cards, which will give you a max of 12 minutes of shooting time, which means that you will have to constantly transfer while you are shooting (when you run out of room on your card) to a laptop and firewire drive. The actual workflow for professional production with these products are “uncharted territory”, so if you think you are going to plug in your drive to your FCP system, and start editing, you are fooling yourself. This applies to products like the more expensive RED camera – even if you had a big budget, there is a steep learning curve. I am not trying to discourage you – I am telling you that this stuff is not easy.

2) you have received excellent advice about purchasing an editing system instead of a camera. And when you get your FCP system, you ain’t going to be working on the internal boot drive of your MAC – you will need EXTERNAL STORAGE, and this costs more money. You will have a lot of footage, and this will take up a lot of space.

3) you think that I am Mr. Grumpy – the mean, and angry guy that is trying to hurt and offend you. You aint’ seen nothing yet. Wait to you try to sell your film, get distribution for it – even get it into film festivals. PEOPLE ARE MEAN. If you are lucky enough to actually find a buyer for your film, the odds are that they will try to screw you financially, and keep all the profits for themself, even though you have done all the work. There is a lot of competition, and THIS IS WAR. People will not be nice to you. This is not one happy little community, where people try to help one another (like on Creative Cow). People want their film to succeed, and want people to forget about “your” film, so they can focus on their product. (this applies to all areas of our business, that includes commercial and corporate video production). People will not be nice to you – no matter how nice you are. Sorry, but that’s life.

bob Zelin

[Mark Suszko]

He may be mean, but he’s certainly not wrong.

[Perrone Ford]

I am so happy I read this thread.

I really don’t understand what people want. Wait, that’s not true. People want to absolutely discount the years of hard won experience, and tons of money invested by pros in this business, and try to play the same game. It just doesn’t work.

How do you explain to someone that they are not going to make a feature when one of your primes costs more than their production budget?

I’ve been working in video for many years. Only professionally for the past few, but I’ve learned a TON from these forums and others, and from people like Mr. Grumpy, and others like him. It’s those hard reality checks, and actually getting my hands dirty and working in the business that have taught me the most.

I don’t know if Marsha will get her film(s) done or not. But I think I understand, like most here, that her path ahead is going to be fraught with roadbumps and obstacles.

[Marsha Foyle]

Hi Bob,

Yes, I have been looking at the Canon EOS 5D Mark II camera and some sample videos and apart from the Canon official video for their product I wasn’t all that impressed – the autofocus did not look very good. I think with the Canon video they used many different expensive lenses to get the look they did. People (at the amateur video makers club!:-)) have told me that the RED camcorder is the next big thing.
I looked at some Panasonic HVX200 footage with a 35mm lense that one of you guys recommended me and thought that looked pretty amazing. I didn’t know you could add lenses to the camcorder.

The problem is however that although I will upgrade my imac to 2GB of RAM, it only has 1GB at the moment, I was told that 2GB is enough to run HD footage. I am already using final cut pro with my DV camcorder although it is not version 6. At this moment in time I have not got the foggiest what to do. I guess I will just continue using my naff DV camcorder and if what I shoot is that great I can get it transfered (that’s what the lady at the lab said; she transfers dv shot films for festivals). So I imagine by the time I have saved up the money to get a camera and better computer of some description, the prices will have gone down, computers will have got better and that elusive special camera will be around.

Thanks for telling me the truth about life in film ‘IT IS A WAR’ I have copied it and stuck it above my computer to remind me. Or I’ve got one ‘DOG EAT DOG’ that’s why I’m a buddhist as you can find ways to get out of the world of animality and deadlock by viewing people differently. I have experienced all that you talk about many times but I’m still here and I will continue. I think you have to get to a point where you do not give a damn what other people think about you – whether they like or dislike you. It’s irrelevant.

Anyway, thank you for your helpful advice. Much appreciated.

[Bob Zelin]

Perrone –
just wait. This is just the beginning. As Canon, Nikon and others (like the low end RED Scarlet) get released and become popular, EVERYONE is going to be a film maker. So as we bash poor Marsha on this thread, because she has a toy camera, the same low priced camera will do AMAZING work 1-2 years from now. So EVERYONE (everyone in the amateurs film club) will be a professional cinematograher. It’s really similar to what happened in audio with ProTools and other similar hi grade audio programs. Any 14 year old could have a professional digital audio workstation at home, and with all the samples available, anyone (and I mean anyone) could make a professional recording. And so – we have the current state of the professional music industry, and the professional recording industry.

Just wait – it’s going to happen to us. RED Scarlet, Canon EOS, etc. will change our business, and the dream of the “amateur film club” will become a reality. EVERYONE will be a film maker.

Marsha thinks we are picking on her, but we are just taking out our frustrations on her. I know whats coming down the road, and I don’t like it.

Bob Zelin