Dual HD-SDI in to a Kona 3, from two XDCAM EX1’s, for on set capture/playback/edit

[Gary Adcock]

[Michael Pierre] “DVCPROHD is DVCPROHD, 100 mbps. data right? “

that is like saying a car is a car- they all have 4 tires don’t they?

You are comparing apples to elephants

DVCPROHD is a codec – or COmpression DECompression engine- it is not video- you cannot plug in FW and have it show up on a monitor, but you can plug a BNC in a monitor to see video on it.

Baseband video is video, not data, and the video would need to be converted to data to be stored.

[Michael Pierre] “can do it with firewire (small bandwidth capability in comparison to HD-SDI) than why can’t Final Cut with Kona/HDSDI ? “

because transferring data over FW is very very small in comparison to moving Baseband video over HDSDI -that pipe needs around 165MBPS is more than 10x what DVCPROHD (@ 14MBPS) uses for its compressed transfers.

handling data is NOT Handling VIDEO.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD

[Pierre]

Ok I think I got it.

Firewire = Data (small pipe)

vs.

HD-SDI = Video (large pipe)

How then, does “Big Mug” do it ? Because unless I’m reading it wrong they’re claiming that they can capture and monitor DVCProHD via firewire… and more than one stream at that.

[Gary Adcock]

[Michael Pierre] “Ok I think I got it.
Firewire = Data (small pipe)
vs.
HD-SDI = Video (large pipe) “

if you got it why are you asking for an answer to your own question?

read your answer ( copied above) then apply it to your the question you followed with.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD

[Ramona Howard]

Michael,

sorry, I’m not kidding. Just curious and I guess I don’t fully understand what the difference is. I’m learning, and admit that I’m not always aware of what I don’t even know. Please go easy.

Will guarantee that I will be a bit gentlier on you than Bob but not much 🙂

Difference is about 200mbs sustained, per stream:) (given we’re talking 4:4:4 here)

The other factors are bus/lanes, not every motherboard is created equal. You try piping that down one bus/lane and see what you get (dual streams). A handful of hair because you get frustrated.

OS plays a huge role. You got overhead in your OS, good luck in getting your machine to perform without hickups…and this is about doing it flawless 24/7, right?

Can any Joe build a system and get it to work, sure just like they can make a movie with a digital H8. Talent and expertise does go along way with this stuff and the secrets of getting it done right are not easily shared, hey we got make a living too 🙂

The goal is to put solid performing tools into the hands of serious people. Ever tried using a screwdriver to hammer in a nail, why would this be any different.

Thanks for letting me bring my tools to the party. Cheers,
Ramona

[Pierre]

Thanks Ramona.

I appreciate the levity and your explanation.

The first time Bob Zelin bit my head off I must admit it threw me a little, now I just get a good laugh out of it. He’s warm underneath his hard armor (I think) ; ).

I wish I had a tee-shirt with a picture of bob and his crazy hair with those two birds perched on either finger…. the caption would read:

“Zelin for president”.

you seen the picture? – It’s on his creative cow bio page. He looks a little like Roger Daltery

: )

[David Smith]

Michael,

Allow me to make an alternative suggestion.

Two laptops or towers (I use Powerbook G4 1.67 machines which are pretty cheap these days, but DON’T use the last “HR” version)

Two MOTU V3HD Firewire converters.

Two eSATA to PCMCIA cards (If you go with Powerbooks. The Firmtek models are a good choice, and of course you’d need Expresscards instead if you go with Macbook Pros)

Two eSATA hard drive cases, or a dual bay case with separate inputs

I use this setup to record two HD-SDI sources as DVCPro-HD. You could use AJA io HD boxes instead of the V3HD, but you’ll need intel macs and more drive space for the Pro Res files.

You’ll have “instant” playback capability, but of course for your assembly you’d need to move one of the drives to the other machine. The V3HD (or io HD) will allow you to connect to SD or HD monitors. I’d be happy to talk with you about the workflow, and if you’re anywhere near New York City you can come see how it works if you’d like.

Regards,
David

[Pierre]

David,

this sounds great.

I wonder… is it possible to “network” the esata drives together somehow ?
Or perhaps have a third drive that is shared by both esata drives so that once the footage is captured it can be copied over to the drive which will be used as the capture scratch in FCP for editing. does that make sense ?

[David Smith]

[Michael Pierre] “I wonder… is it possible to “network” the esata drives together somehow ? “

I suppose you could network the computers together as they have Gigabit ethernet…. but I’m not sure the transfer times would be fast enough. The workflow is going to depend on how often the director wants to see a rough cut. You wouldn’t be able to record and transfer at the same time.

You could use hot swappable drive cases, and possibly a third computer to edit and play back from. Then you could sneakernet the drives around as needed.

[Ramona Howard]

OK you guys just segwayed into our new Bravo product emerging at NAB. Portability of uncompressed content with absolutely no transfer times. This means huge savings! For anyone who has had to transfer HD frames, especially 4:4:4 frames over a network or on/off external units you will understand and appreciate.

Instantly access to every frame as full uncompressed material and yes network mountable to those editing and compositing packages and or a direct connect to some solutions where the hardware allows. All standard, inexpensive, straight forward stuff 🙂

Look forward to sharing as the days tick away towards April.

Cheers,
Ramona