Does anyone pay?

[Mark Suszko]

Hang tough, brother; it is the only way they will eventually come up to your price.

Look at it this way: those kinds of deals will destroy anybody that agrees to take them. You should point these kinds of “clients” towards your worst business rivals. 🙂

[David Eaks]

Counter offer-

Shoot the pilot at double your rate, if it is not picked up, refund 50%.

The compromise instead of the counter offer? Your normal rate and no “if this, then that” crap 🙂

Maybe they’ll realize that people don’t like getting screwed… But probly not.

[Todd Terry]

[Roy Schneider] ” …wants to shoot a pilot on spec, but does not want to give anything on the backside either…if it is picked up we will pay you for the service you have already provided. “

Well, two questions…

1) Why would anyone ever have the balls to offer that deal?

2) Why would anyone ever consider taking that deal?

Your only response should be a hearty laugh as you turn to walk away.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Mark Suszko]

You got me curious about the barter, because I have done work for “trade-outs” before. However, the value of the trade was pretty close to the same as charging them cash. I mainly did that as a favor to a client that was a personal acquaintance.

What’s the most bizarre trade for editing services anybody’s ever done, I wonder?

[Todd Terry]

[Mark Suszko] “What’s the most bizarre trade for editing services anybody’s ever done, I wonder?”

Here we’ve rarely done any barter, but have a few times…

I’d say the most unusual here was surgery.

Both my art director and my general manager got free Lasik surgery from one of our ophthalmology surgeon clients, in exchange for commercial production.

It was a good deal on both ends, they got about $10,000 worth of surgery and both went from blind-as-bats to 20/20, and he got about $12,000 worth of commercial production. We gave away everything that didn’t cost us hard cash… it was several years ago but I think he paid for talent and filmstock/lab.

That turned out to be a good marriage. Not only has he done tons of paid business with us since then, but our employees’ peepers turned out so successfully they they have referred scads of patients to him.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Ned Miller]

Careful what you post about barter. The IRS could be lurking…

Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com

[Nick Griffin]

[Mark Suszko] “What’s the most bizarre trade for editing services anybody’s ever done?”

Many, many, MANY years ago we had a car dealer as a client and the barter was our services (NOT talent and expenses) in exchange for the use of 3 new cars: A top-end sedan, a mid-range sedan and a low-end station wagon. Guess which one I drove? And it wasn’t just the cars. It included insurance, maintenance, car washes, even gas. The cars were dealership “demos” so we kept getting new ones every 5,000 miles or so. Of course this was a very under-the-table kind of deal, which I was young and dumb enough at the time to not realize was, even way back then, playing with fire.

[Ned Miller] “Careful what you post about barter. The IRS could be lurking…”

And that’s why I’m making it clear this was many, many, many years ago. Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan were Presidents. The one and only barter deal that I had as recently as 2002 was declared and the appropriate taxes paid — the way it’s SUPPOSED to be done. The IRS doesn’t screw around and I’ve known people whose lives were made a living hell because they played fast and loose with taxes.

As to legitimate barter deals, ratios given by the weaker of the sides are quite common. In other words they give you $2 or $3 of their goods or services for every $1 of your service — if they want what you’re offering bad enough.

And an interesting side story: the car dealer who first introduced me to his own variety of barter deals started by offering the local radio and TV stations use of his gas pumps in exchange for their airtime so he could advertise his dealerships. I believe the worst of his deals at the time was 3 to 1 in his favor. The best 8 to 1.

In the mid-eighties he realized that he was much better at setting up barter deals with TV and radio stations than he was as a car dealer, so he created a network that provided traffic reports for the stations in exchange for airtime which he then bundled and sold to national advertisers. His network expanded to most major US cities, then got into bartering weather reports and brief newscasts for radio stations. He expanded it into Europe and a few major markets in Asia. When it was sold in the early to mid 2000s his majority interest stake paid something in the range of a half a billion (yes, with a “b”) dollars. Me? I’m still making ads and videos.

[Nick Griffin]

We had a start-up approach us with a “deal” wherein if we took them on as a client, AND they were to succeed, then they would pay our regular rates retroactively. My counter offer was in exchange for assuming the risk they would pay expenses in advance and THREE times our normal fees when certain levels of sales were achieved. They balked and I didn’t pursue further discussions.

Sometimes it’s best to know which “deals” to just walk away from.

[Bill Dewald]

Amazing story. Here I am, sitting in an edit bay, working on “Barter Kings”.

Wednesdays on A&E 🙂

[Scott Sheriff]

[Roy Schneider] “Hi All:
I just got out of my 3rd meeting this month with a client that wants Production Work without paying. 2 wanted to Barter, and one wants to shoot a pilot on spec, but does not want to give anything on the backside either. His proposal was… shoot the pilot, and if it is picked up we will pay you for the service you have already provided.

Does anyone just pay for service anymore.”

Short answer, no.

You have hit the crux of the problem. There are more of these ‘future work’ guys, than there are real clients. And this is being driven by the millions that will do it for nothing, and this guy knows it. Even if this guy has to go through 6 more production companies until someone bites, he’s still money ahead.

If this was a reality show, I’d call it “A Grinder is Born”

Scott Sheriff
SST Digital Media
Multi-Camera Director, VFX and Post Production

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