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difficulties with clients
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[Mark Suszko] “Not much to add this time”
Does not compute…..
Seriously, this is all good stuff here. Fortunately I have not been in this situation. If I ever do, I will have learned from your experience. Thanks for sharing openly and honestly.
Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media -
[David Roth Weiss] “Keep in mind, if you’re in the wrong this will end up biting you big time. So, if you have even an inkling that its your ego talking and not your brain, you’d best start figuring out a plan to get things back on track before you wind up paying for that commercial yourself.”
Oh trust me, I’ve gone over this in my own head, wanting to make sure I’m not being a baby, but truth is, I’ve bent over backwards to accommodate my client, and have been easy going, and giving extra. I had no warning that “Junior” would be involved, and truth be told, I hate it. I’m creative, and I know what I’m doing, and I don’t need her telling me what to do. I think if I had agreed to her involvement, that would’ve been a different story. My client last night said she didn’t feel the need to “run it by me”.
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[grinner hester] “I am in the business of pleasing clients. Quite a bit of that time has gone to making a show worse at the request of the bill-payer.”
I had forwarded over to my professor from college, who runs his own production company, and who actually just hired me for a freelance gig next week (at $50 an hour), but anyway, he loved the intro that I created. I told him of some of the creative differences I was experiencing, and he told me “don’t let them make you change it, it’s perfect how it is”. How do you not let them change it though? This has been part of my struggle, fighting to keep what I feel is right. But as it turns out, I’ve made changes, and now they still want more changes. They are relentless actually.
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They’re the client and they get to determine the final content. That’s why there are “director’s cuts.”
NEVER EVER EVER give ANYONE an OPEN ENDED contract. Even flat rate packages (which I would NOT do) usually are limited to ONE revision.
I don’t know all the details but as Steve and Ron said, you can walk away and either they’ll agree with your terms to continue or they wont. Otherwise you’re loosing money by putting in more work and not getting paid for the time.
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I know you have your solution for this problem. Which is great!
I can imagine that you’ll never, ever let anyone call the shots again. I finally realized a little while ago that I am the director and unless the client has a specific, addressable problem they need help with, it’s my show and my vision (previously signed off on by said client, naturally). It doesn’t mean one shouldn’t be open to the input of others. Just that in the end, this is your show.
That’s what they pay us for, even if- depending on the shoot- we’re not just playing the director but also the DP, gaffer, production designer, and janitor.
This took me a while to figure out. That’s why I read the Cow. There’s always much to be learned from one’s peers- especially those who’ve been screwed before, which is pretty much all of us at one time or another. 😉
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http://www.geniusmonkeys.com
(818) 653-9144 -
I think at this point the solution is pretty obvious… cut it EXACTLY like the client wants, right down to the frame they say… no matter how bad it looks or how unhappy you are with the end results…. do it quickly… and move on.
As others have said, it’s the client’s money and the client’s project… they have the call on final cut.
As someone whose company primarily produces broadcast commercials I had to learn a similar hard lesson myself many years ago… and finally had to come to the realization that they are just commercials.
You’re not making art… you’re selling soap.
Every now and then a great client will come around that shares or accepts your complete vision, and you’ll walk away with a spot that both sells a product… and is art… or, at least something that you are proud of.
There’s a reason that not everything that gets produced “makes the reel.”
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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This all happened to me about 20 years ago. A gal had hired me to produce a dog obedience video for too cheap. But I was excited about getting a job that paid $5,000.
This thing went on way too long and she just quit working on the project. I had twice as much time invested then what we agreed on and I sued her, in small claims court, for the rest on my money. She sued me in superior court for ruining her life. She obviously never met my first wife.
The superior court wanted to refer the case to an arbitrator because this was obviously a squabble, not a court case. No one’s life was “ruined”.
But, instead of an arbitrator, the judge took us into his chambers for a private pow wow. He agreed that we would never get the job finished and we had to settle on money. His decision was that I had done a lot more work than I had gotten paid for and she she was actually way ahead in the deal. The training tapes were 90% done. He asked if I (the defendant) would be willing to hand her the tapes and walk away. I said yes and we were done. She and I shook hands and she never did put her product on the market.
Now this: I got a call a few days later from the state bar association asking me to bid on their “Continuing Legal Education Program”. I bid on it, got it and had that contract for 10 years. I found out later that the superior court judge put my name in the hat. Being ethical, honest, and standing your ground will get you noticed by the right people. And the most important thing is to admit when you’re wrong. Just try really hard to never be wrong. That’s probably easy for you. Your original post presents you as being in the right but not wanting to make waves, a good attitude. We all just need to know when it’s time to speak up. None of us want to throw money out the window. Well, not me anyway.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD . -
A very wise answer Todd. I think that Lisa is concerned that she would be putting out a job that she would not be proud of. I go through this with my editor about once a month. I have to tell him “They are paying the bill. Give them what they want”. If it is pure crap, I can send it out the door.
I shot a feature film a few years ago and the client took a DVD of the rough cut and created a trailer from it. Horrible. Boring. Didn’t make an ounce on sense. I’ve showed it to others and they all agree. My editor cut a really sharp trailer that actually enticed a person to watch this movie. The client said that they didn’t like it and to send their version with the deliverables to the distributor. The distributor called us and said that our trailer was one of the worst they’d seen, nicely, but that’s what they said. I directed them to our trailer that was posted on-line and they loved it. They called the client and said that they wanted to use our trailer and the client called us and ripped into us for not liking their work. It’s available on NetFlix and I keep wanting to rent it to see what the distributed DVD looks like.
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD . -
“There’s a reason that not everything that gets produced “makes the reel.” – T2
As they say… Some for reel. Some for meal.
I’d wrap this puppy up as quick as possible and move on. If you do the math and figure out that you should have charged $10K instead of $1K, then call it a $9000 business lesson and be thankful for the lessons learned.
– GH
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[Steve Wargo] “She sued me in superior court for ruining her life. She obviously never met my first wife.”
Now that is funny! 😉
[Steve Wargo] “Being ethical, honest, and standing your ground will get you noticed by the right people. And the most important thing is to admit when you’re wrong. Just try really hard to never be wrong. That’s probably easy for you. Your original post presents you as being in the right but not wanting to make waves, a good attitude. We all just need to know when it’s time to speak up. None of us want to throw money out the window. Well, not me anyway.”
And thanks, you’re right, I didn’t want to make waves, wanted to be professional and stand by my agreement. Took care of it though, Junior is gone. It’s one thing to work cheaply, but why have to put up with someone that I didn’t agree to?
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