Dance Recital Question

[Steve Wargo]

Regardless of copyright, no one cares about you video taping their event. However, don’t do the job based on sales.

You need to get paid just like any other job. Supply the program DVDs to the dance school for $5 each. Let’s say you charge $350 for the job and they have orders for 50 DVDs. You have an invoice for them for $750. They sell the DVDs for $15 each to break even or $20 to make a profit.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
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[Tyler Groom]

So what about the copyright, because the music they will be dancing too will be popular music that they will play off of cd’s?

[Mick Haensler]

Yes you will be breaking copyright laws. But as Steve said, noone really cares. When you have a magazine claiming to be “The Authority in Event Videography” not only endorsing breaking copyright laws but printing articles showing you how to do it, it is highly highly doubtful the authorities will come a knockin. The bigger issue is getting paid a reasonable amount for the gig. As Steve said, get a fee plus a per copy amount. This way at least you will cover cost, which is usually all you can hope to do with these types of gigs.

Mick Haensler
Higher Ground Media

[Ron Lindeboom]

[Mick Haensler] “When you have a magazine claiming to be “The Authority in Event Videography” not only endorsing breaking copyright laws but printing articles showing you how to do it, it is highly highly doubtful the authorities will come a knockin. The bigger issue is getting paid a reasonable amount for the gig.”

I would beg to disagree here. The bigger issue is the copyrights which have been violated by both parties in this scenario. Likely, the dance school has not licensed the performance rights (which is why our local dance academy has licensed a much less expensive performance piece than they once did, as they did run into performance issues and had to pay fines).

The truth is, a magazines that documents ways to break the law is NOT a smart magazine. Eventually, one of their readers is going to run afoul of the law and when they get sued, they will name “The Authority in Event Videography” as a culpable party in the matter. And they will be right and will have documented proof to that affect. The magazine will find themselves in legal hot water, which is why you won’t ever see anything like this in Creative COW Magazine.

Odds are, you can get away with this. But you are still playing the odds. The truth is, “Russian Roulette” uses only one bullet in a six shooter whose shell magazine chamber is spun and the odds are just 16.6% that you will be the one whose head is blown off if you play. Still, someone is going to eventually “find the bullet.”

Me, I’d question the advice and value of any publication that encourages people who want to claim the rights to copyright and protect their own work, to so freely dismiss the rights of other copyright holders.

Using their math, if I like any of this magazine’s articles, I can help myself, right???

You can’t have it both ways: if musicians and artists can’t enjoy copyright protection, then why should your (or the magazine’s) rights be respected?

That’s the real bigger issue. The issue of payment is merely a walk down a self-justified distraction in a pursuit that is eroding the rights of content creators of all kinds.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronlindeboom
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
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[Ron Lindeboom]

I am always amazed when I read these kinds of posts and threads, as I cannot help but feel how the original poster’s words would be so different if they discovered that their work had been used somewhere else by someone who wasn’t respecting their rights.

The wording would likely be something like…

I just found that some of my work has been used by someone who has taken it without my permission and is stealing it without any form of compensation.

It’s funny how the rules change when it’s convenient. It’s even funnier still how indignant you would likely get were it your rights being violated.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom
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Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
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[Mark Suszko]

I’m with Ron on this one.
If you’re really a businessman, I can’t imagine why you would take this kind of risk regarding copyrighted stuff. While it is true you are a very tiny fish in a very large ocean, when/if you get caught, the hook still hurts just as bad. The stakes could be your gear, your car, your house. Or you could get off with a warning. You just can’t know.

I did stuff like this when I was young, reckless and stupid and the law was less clear and there was less enforcement and no internet, so I was much more anonymous. Today, the risk is small but not one I’d be willing to take.

On the other topic, the easiest way to lose money on these kinds of projects IMO is to take on the sales and collections yourself, or lay out a lot of time and expense then wait hopefully for sales to dribble in in small drips and drabs. You’ll go broke. My suggestions are:

Get your money up front for your time and materials. Then you can wait around for extra dub order money later, but don’t expect a lot of orders after the initial surge, because you will lose a significant amount to piracy. Not to mention, the buying audience for recitals is usually pretty narrow and limited to friends and family.

Establish a minimum pre-order amount, calculated so you will make your expenses and a profit, and nobody gets advance copies, they all go out the same day. If there are not enough advance orders to make this worth your while by the deadline, don’t take it on.

Make collecting the pre-orders the client’s problem (or one of the alpha stage mothers who has a kid in the show). You can’t afford the time to chase down these sales one by one. The client/ user community buying your product is the best resource to police the copying/piracy issue if you make it in their interest to prevent it, they have the connections and peer pressure to enforce it for you. Back when I was briefly in the video yearbook business, I saw this: the kids would pool their lunch money to make one, lousy, stinking order, knowing they were going to pirate dozens of VHS copies off the one master, later.

You can’t beat pirates; like car thieves, you can only make it unprofitable or too time-consuming to steal with a view to re-sale. If a pirate can buy one for $30 and make dubs for $2 each and sell those for $20, he will. He’d even sell pirate copies for ten, if there was enough volume to make it worthwhile. But, if you sell the originals for ten bucks or less, he’s not going to see enough margin in it to make it worthwhile to sell such a low volume. he’ll pick a fatter target. Trick is, can YOU make any margin at the per-unit price? If the DVD is mostly underwritten by sponsors or advertisers, I believe the answer is “yes”.

[Tyler Groom]

SO if I am young and not truly a businessman, and I am only selling like 40-50 copies, should I do it or not?

[Ron Lindeboom]

If you live at home, your parents can be made legally responsible for you and they could lose all that Mark Suszko laid out in his comments. So, if you are in that situation, think what they stand to lose, just so you can make a few bucks.

Don’t let yourself get started in this kind of business where “chump change” is the end result — if anything. You will be chasing chump change time and again if you do this.

Focus on getting some business for a real project that you truly control and can have the legitimate rights to and sell to people who are interested in the subject.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronlindeboom
Publisher, Creative COW Magazine
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[Walter Biscardi]

As others have already noted, copyright issues are definitely in play here both for the Dance Studio and for you if you take on the job. The big issue is you will be getting paid per copy of DVD so you are getting paid to shoot and edit a project using copyrighted material. You will be the producer so you will be held liable for all fines that result from the lack of rights clearance for the project.

Will you get caught? Probably not, but I’m not one to ever take that chance. If the dance studio simply wants to hire you to record the event and then hand them the tapes, do that. Then you’re just getting paid for your time and you are simply documenting the event. Let them make the DVD’s and charge people for them on their own and leave you out of it.

Charge them no less than $350 for your time and equipment.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Tyler Groom]

So if I hand over the tapes am I breaking any laws? What if I edit one dvd and then hand that over to them and they do with it what they want?