• Apple Final Cut Pro Legacy

  Converting AVCHD from Canon HSF10 for use in FCE – De-interlace Flicker (Fast Hand Movement)

  Posted by Michael O’hare on September 15, 2009 at 3:09 pm

  Hello. I would like to explain a problem I’m having with my Canon HSF10 and Final Cut Express. I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you in advance!

  First, if I hook up my camcorder directly to my Samsung HD monitor the picture quality and movement is excellent. No artifacts or issues. I looking at clips of me playing guitar. My hands move fast and there is no blurring or artifacts. Now, here we go….

  I use FCE to log and transfer the files using the AIC set at the correct settings. All works perfectly and the vids look great within FCE. HOWEVER, when I go to the file in the scratch folder and play the file with Quicktime there is deinterlace flicker on my hands when they move quickly. This is the raw file log and transfered and not edited or bounced. But in FCE it looks just fine.

  Ok, next step.

  I also get the same artifacts with my fast hand movement in my final bounced edited video when viewed in Quicktime or on YouTube (see below). When I play the scratch file or the edited video within FCE I do not see the problem. Could this be because FCE uses its own codec to play back the scratch files and when I play the .mov file with Quicktime (or on YouTube) I get a different result?

  BTW, the video recorder is set for 60i since the FCE HD codec is 60i. Maybe I should switch back to 30p when recording?

  You can see a sample here:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOkBQ9ZkqbA

  Notice at 0:40 or so and at 1:24 and a few other places, when my hand moves suddenly there are artifacts that are created. I don’t see these in my scratch files within FCE, but I do see them clearly in the bounced .mov file in Quicktime. And I think I see them in the original .mov file using Quicktime and not FCE (so I’m not sure of the source).

  UPDATE: I just watched the file that I referenced above (on YouTube) in FCE and the artifacts DO NOT EXIST. They only exist on YouTube and when I watch the bounced .mov file with Quicktime. I checked the original files on the camera hard drive linked to my monitor (native files) and they are fine.

  Here is the HD raw file item properties in FCE:
  29.97 fps
  1920×1080
  Compressor: Apple Intermediate Codec (applied with logged and transferred I think)
  Data Rate 13.7 MB/sec
  Pixel Aspect: Square
  Field Dominance: Upper (odd)
  Composite: Normal
  Audio: Stereo
  Audio Rate: 48 KHz
  Aud Format 16-bit interger

  And here are the settings that I used to bounce the edited video you see above:

  Video Settings:
  MPEG-4 Video
  Frame Rate: Current (setting this to 29.97 caused other problems previously)
  Key Frames: Every 6 frames
  Data Rate: Restrict to 6400 kbits/sec (default when I choose MPEG-4; but I admit I dont understand this parameter.
  Compressor Quality: Best

  Filter Settings: None

  Size:
  HD 1920×1080 16:9
  Preserve Aspect Ration Using: Letterbox (I have some std video mixed in)

  Audio:
  AAC
  Stereo
  44.1
  Best
  Bit rate: 128 kb/sec

  Could this be because FCE uses its own codec to play back the scratch files and when I play the .mov file with Quicktime (or on YouTube) I get a different result? It seems only FCE plays the videos perfectly.

  Here are two pictures of my problem. I copied stills into Apple Pages. I couldn’t get it to work with other programs. I hope some of you have Pages on your Mac.

  https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=ZW9CeVd1cTJsUjljR0E9PQ

  If you see horizontal stripes on my hands then the file came through. If it’s blurred then this is not what I see. When I pasted in the screen shots there is clearly horizontal lines on my hand which is moving quickly.

  I rendered in MPEG-4 and then again in H.264 (which takes forever) and both tests had the exact same problem in the bounced files. But in FCE I only see a very slight blur and not this major issue. So frustrating.

  BTW, this is the best description of what I see so far; I’ll try recording in 30p and see if this helps (but the Mac AIC is 60i – not sure if they have to match or not):

  What is interlace flicker?
  Interlace flicker is the narrow lines you see while there is a fast movement or panning on the video from your JVC camcorders playing on your computer. The reason why you get this is because the camcorder is using interlaced scanning to record and your computer is using progressive way to play it. The following is the detailed description of interlace scanning and deinterlacing from avchduser.

  “A television set creates image on the screen line by line. In traditional television all lines on the screen are not drawn or scanned in sequence from top to bottom, instead every other line is scanned. This method of display is called interlacing. With interlacing, an entire single image called frame is shown in two interlaced scans, each scan constitute a video field. Compared to non-interlaced or progressive television, interlacing allows using higher scanning rate within a given bandwidth. Higher scanning rate reduces flickering and allows to portray motion more naturally. Interlaced scanning produces a visual defect called combing when objects in the image move around. With a traditional CRT-based television combing is not noticeable because fields are shown as series of fast flashes, caused by moving electronic beam, and also because scanning lines overlap a bit. Modern LCD and plasma displays work differently than CRT displays and cannot display interlaced video natively. To avoid combing, interlaced video must be converted to progressive before it is presented to a viewer. The process of converting interlaced video into progressive is called deinterlacing.” —–from avchduser

  UPDATE: I just did a test render in H.264 with “deinterlace” on under Size and it mitigated the effect a little bit, but it’s still there in the output file. Doesn’t happen playing in FCE.

  My conclusion: The AIC does not work well with fast movement. As soon as I log and transfer a file, if I play that file back in anything by FCE, there is deinterlace flicker.

  Anyone have any thoughts on this? I’ve read that the AIC codec in FCE is not a good one and that FCP has higher quality/better codecs. But of course Apple is screwing me and wont let me migrate up to Pro at a reasonable cost. In fact, there is NO upgrade path from FCE to FC Studio and you can’t just get Pro stand alone. I dont need all the other programs. There is definitely something wrong with the AIC in FCE.

  Michael

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  Michael O’hare replied 16 years, 7 months ago 1 Member · 0 Replies
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