Competing Backwards

[Eric Peterson]

Sorry but that scenario is not sustainable. Say the $2000 job takes twenty hours. $100 a hour. Person B will only be making $75. Then person C will make $50 per hour. Adding in After Effect and then Maya will only increase the number of hours on the commercial and that guy will end up making only $5 an hour. There are only so many hours in a day. That guy will price himself out of business. Set your price but be somewhat flexible. The guy charging $500 but putting out crap will eventually look less desirable. In my experience you get what you pay for. Just a thought.

[Jaime Fowler]

Welcome to the 21st Century. Like everything else on the computer (desktop publishing, for example), digital video editing has become “democratized” so that everyone can afford to do it. The big difference here is what kind of spot you can create and how much better it would be than if they use the next guy.

I think that one of the best remedies is referrals. When I worked in Los Angeles, we didn’t spend a lot of time creating demos— the producer was more inclined to drop a dime on your other clients and find out what it was like to work with you.

But let’s face it: some people with less experience will hire a cheaper editor. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I think the real competition is ourselves. Branding your post facility and services can make you stand out. You won’t bag all of the jobs, but you might just get the best ones.

Just my $.02
Jaime Fowler

[Shane Ross]

Besides pricing themselves into the poorhouse, and working INSANE hours (young single people…sheesh)…soon their abilities and skill level will show. And it might not be what the client wants, so soon they will come back to the more expensive TALENTED shops.

Odd…I had the OPPOSITE happen a few months ago. We were bidding on a project and the competition bid more than we did. $300,000 MORE. And for the life of us we couldn’t figure out how they could spend that much more money (except for on the lobby and sofas in the edit bays)…and wouldn’t you know it we LOST THE BID. “You must be doing something wrong if you aren’t spending that much money” was the answer we got.

And this was for two 5-min web videos shot on HD. WEB VIDEOS! $300,000 OVER OUR PRICE! Ad agencies…I’ll never understand them.

Oh…and they went OVER budget…

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Martin Sterling]

I hear you. I get that a lot too. Price high so people feel they are getting a superior service.

But also, what is market value? You are talking about $300,000 for 2 web videos. There some magazines out here that wont pay you the $300 you invoiced them for. So what is the scale and how could the cost for practically the same service span such a spectrum? Granted your stuff was on HD, but $300,000 compared $300.

Here’s my reel. You tell me where the discrepency is

https://www.ruffbreed.com/movies/Editor%20Reel%202_8.06.mov

G5 Dual 2.0 GHz processor, OSX.4.8

[Arnie Schlissel]

[Shane Ross] “Oh…and they went OVER budget…”

Of course they did. How else could they justify the extra $300k?

Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog

[Shane Ross]

[Martin Sterling] “Here’s my reel. You tell me where the discrepency is”

All it is is one big montage…I don’t see any full pieces of work. This shows that you can cut a montage to the beat, which I guess is what you do with music videos, but still. DP demo reels are like this…montage of shots set to music. But Director, Editor and Actor reels need to show clips from projects. Scenes…full commercials, a part of a music video. This way the person hiring you can get an idea of what you can do.

Here, I have three reels here:

https://homepage.mac.com/comeback/professional/Menu20.html

Documentary, Narrative and Commercial.

As for that $300,000 job…the Ad Agency guy wanted to use the Viper camera because “that’s what they shot Miami Vice on.” Web videos…he wanted the Viper for web videos. That should have been a clue.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Jeremy Garchow]

I find this is happening to a lot of the aspects of the production business, not just editing. I just wrapped up on a huge meeting with lots and lots of multi media, more than last year’s meeting and of course the meeting production company’s client wanted them to do it for less money even though the were providing more services. We provided way more than last year and everything looked fantastic on site, but the client was not willing to pay more and they gave us less time to work on it. And not only for the videos we produced for it, but for the whole entire show. Talent, crew, gear, days of the meeting, everything was cut way down and we were riding an extremely thin line trying to get everything done and technically sound. It’s very close to failure, but if you are a good little worker, you don’t let your client know how hard you work, how close you are to failure, because that’s considered ‘bad service’. ‘Good service’ is making your client happy at your expense and no complaints. What gets me is that no one pushes back any more, because there are people that will do it for 1/4 of the cost right around the corner so they don’t want to lose the business. In some ways I can can see that, but in other ways, I really don’t know if the client’s understand the kind of work that goes in to what we do. Since everything is so instant these days (web movie preview copies, instant changes, last minute dubs) and people don’t sit in the edit suite anymore (at least not with us) people have no idea what it’s going to be like to cut 15 seconds out of a piece that’s all edited together perfectly. They know they want 15 seconds out of it, but they have no idea how long that takes and all that is involved. I am actually trying to encourage people (even the ultimate client i.e. the meeting production company’s client) to come BACK to the edit suite. Sit here with me and watch and see what it’s like to make changes. Educating your clients is fast becoming a necessity, more now than ever. Since people think everything is so instant (and yes, we can make changes a lot faster, but now we can just make more changes in less time so it’s not like we are saving any time we just do more in the same amount of time) they demand instant service and leave no time for error, breathing room, or time to make better decisions when you aren’t so pressed to get everything out the door. I am finding even seasoned producers that know capabilities of digital production today are demanding faster and faster service at higher and higher qualities for less and less time and less time is less money. I don’t know the proper answer, expect that I have been trying to tell my clients (politely of course) that while we can do more with one machine these days, quality still takes time and money. It’s an uphill battle to be sure.

[Aaron Neitz]

I would have told them the Viper was child’s play. They should have been shooting Red @ 2k for webclips! Amateurs these days….

I’ve had that happen to us too….I jut don’t get it.

[Rhewitt]

The problem? …A C C O U N T A N T S !!

The more they screw you, the more they get paid.

Time to put them in bear suits and let them roam the woods – see how they survive in a cut-throat environment!!

[Gary Adcock]

[Shane Ross] “Ad agencies…I’ll never understand them.
Oh…and they went OVER budget…”

Shane
it’s called a 17.5% markup

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows