Client can’t view the QT movies

[Lars Wikstrom]

I didn’t know that Panasonic didn’t create the DVCpro codec. Perhaps that is why I can’t find it and download it on their site. That thought never even came across my mind when I bought into the DVCpro way of doing things. I thought it was apart of the quicktime codec structure now for both platforms.

If you have to buy the codec to view these files if you don’t have an editing system then that is very lame. I would doubt PDF files would be a good way to distribute documents if you had to pay for the reader.

And to answer your question Mitch this happens often with me. A Director comes down from San Fran to Santa Barbara, hires a local videographer and takes the footage back with him. In every other case they have left with a DV or Beta SP tape. This tape then goes back with them to an editing house. In this case the original files went back in a Disc not a tape. The director wants to view the footage and make notes before he enters the studio. that is not such a far fetched idea.

I hope Jan sees this and can point me to a cross platform decompression codec.

Thanks,

-Lars

[Noah Kadner]

Lars-

No offense but it’s a bit insulting to see you keep pining for Jan as if she’s the only person who can help you. Do you assume none of us know what we’re talking about because you keep *not* getting the answer you want?

-Noah

[Mark Burton]

Lars, a few questions:
-What does the client want to use to edit the files?
-Do you have the original P2 MXF files?
If you do, burn another disk with these files on. In this format they are much more flexible on the Windows platform.
—
Mark

[Leonard Levy]

Couldn’t you also make the client a dub with files downconverted to ordinary DV then into Quicktime?
Seems like this should be simpler though.
It is good to know that this problem exists.

[Lars Wikstrom]

Noah, I don’t mean to insult I just happen to know from her posts that she is a Panasonic Rep and might have more insite as to a software decompression codec that non Panasonic people might not know about. There might be more Panny people here but she is the only one that I know about which is why I mentined her.

The client now has all the files since I was just hired to shoot the event and give them the tapes or media. When I shot it on Saturday I had no clue that it would be this hard to track down a codec for viewing. If I knew what I know now I would have transcoded the clips to a more user friendly multi platform format then DVCpro.

If you use Black Magic card to digitize in the footage you can go to their website and download the sotware codec to view on other computers that don’t have the hardware installed. Since the HVX-200 creates the clips in the camera and uses the DVCpro codec as the compressor the computer only needs the decompressor and no other hardware. So before Saturday I thought that was a standered way of thinking. Go to Panny site and download the codec and drop into QT plugs for Mac or Windows version and it’s done.

This was the first job that I used the new camera for and I do about 10 a year like this where the client takes the tapes / media with them. Now I will have to have him send me back the discs so I can trancode them for him.

Thanks for all your insite!!

-Lars

[Mitch Ives]

[doka15] “And to answer your question Mitch this happens often with me. A Director comes down from San Fran to Santa Barbara, hires a local videographer and takes the footage back with him. In every other case they have left with a DV or Beta SP tape. This tape then goes back with them to an editing house. In this case the original files went back in a Disc not a tape. The director wants to view the footage and make notes before he enters the studio. that is not such a far fetched idea.”

Perhaps not, but then these “producers” need to spend some time staying current. Given your situation, I’d suggest the following workflow:

1) Give them the files in the native P2 format, not the FCP converted QT files.

2) If they are on a PC, then have them use the P2 Viewer software from Panasonic to view the files. If they are on a Mac, then they need to spend $99 on the new Mac P2 Viewer from Imagine Products. If they are serious, they should invest in HD Log software instead so they can do some more constructive logging.

Alternatively, they do need a place to edit these files… and they will have to be able to work with those files eventually, so shouldn’t they be in a position to help the producer out?

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5

[Lars Wikstrom]

Yes you are right. This will be edited in Modesto I think he said it will be edited on an Avid system. The Director / Producer wanted to look at the footage on his Dell this week to get an idea of the shots he will be using for the edit.

The original P2 files don’t exist anymore. My work flow is drop the P2 card in the laptop, import the P2 media via FCP and have workable QT files located in the capture scratch folder.

If they can’t import them into the Avid then I will have them send the disc’s back to me, download the FREE AVID SOFTWARE CODEC which AVID supplys online for FREE and transcode the files to a format they can use.

It seems like every other company DeckLink, Avid, AJA and so on that have a codec that is not standard in QT supply a free codec for people who need to work in that format that don’t have the hardware. I would asume that Panasonic would also offer this FREE codec to make it simple. Perhaps they do and I can’t find it or they are working on one or just don;t have one which some people in hear have said already.

If I have him download the P2 viewer is that only to view the P2 media from the card or can he view the DVCpro 50 QT clips I gave him in that viewer?

Is DVCpro a licensed format that Panasonic is building all this hardware around or do they own the DVCpro format? If so then they should atleast put a downloadable codec on their website even if it is for viewing and not writing to this format. Many other companies who create their own hardware offer downloadable software codecs for people who don’t have that hardware. I guess I keep talking about this because I have never seen this before.

I told the client before I left that it might be in the QT codec line up or downloadable from the panasonic site, opps.

If there is no multi platform codec to solve this problem (now or in the works) then I guess I will have to dust off the old DVCAM, “Old Faithful”, that went into retirement 5 weeks ago for these types of jobs since P2 makes it harder then just giving them a tape.

This is not a rant so please don’t read it like that. I am thankfull for the information all of you P2 brainiacs are providing me to help me get the most out of the equipment I know use.

Thanks!!!

-Lars

[Jan Crittenden livingston]

doka15 wrote: The original P2 files don’t exist anymore. My work flow is drop the P2 card in the laptop, import the P2 media via FCP and have workable QT files located in the capture scratch folder.

This is not a recommended workflow. It can result in problems in the media. I have seen many a dropout caused this way. Transfer your MXF/P2 media to a HDD. Import from there. Never discard the MXF files, this is the only file format that is cross compatible at the codec level. It would be analogus to throwing awy the master footage. Your client will not be able to read the Apple QT files. This is not a format like DV, it is not univerally handled the same way.

>Is DVCpro a licensed format that Panasonic is building all this hardware around or do they own the DVCpro format?

DVCPRO/DVCPRO50/DVCPRO HD are all Panasonic Formats. DVCPRO25 is open license but the DVCPRO50 and the DVCPRO HD are not. The only requirement that we make of the licensee, like Apple or Avid, is that they see a standard file on import and that when it outputs, it outputs over 1394 a standard signal. Everthing else is propriety to the NLE system that is running the codec.

>If so then they should atleast put a downloadable codec on their website even if it is for viewing and not writing to this format. Many other companies who create their own hardware offer downloadable software codecs for people who don’t have that hardware.

I don’t see Sony offering HDCAM or DigiBeta Codecs on their website or even the XDCAM HD or Beta SX. So no this does not work as an argument. You can try using the MainConcept DVCPRO50 codec, but I am not sure that this is going to work.

>I told the client before I left that it might be in the QT codec line up or downloadable from the panasonic site, opps.

Sorry.

>If there is no multi platform codec to solve this problem (now or in the works) then I guess I will have to dust off the old DVCAM, “Old Faithful”, that went into retirement 5 weeks ago for these types of jobs since P2 makes it harder then just giving them a tape.

Might be just as easy to keep the master MXF files and let them use the P2 Viewer and then they can benefit from the 4:2:2 sampling that DVCPRO50 offers.

Best,

Jan

Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems

[Mitch Ives]

[doka15] “Yes you are right. This will be edited in Modesto I think he said it will be edited on an Avid system. The Director / Producer wanted to look at the footage on his Dell this week to get an idea of the shots he will be using for the edit.

The original P2 files don’t exist anymore. My work flow is drop the P2 card in the laptop, import the P2 media via FCP and have workable QT files located in the capture scratch folder.”

Okay, the first thing you’ve learned is that you never get rid of the original P2 files. They have all the metadata that is so helpful. The FCP files are only for editing. You should be archiving the original files, not the FCP files.

Here’s the correct workflow:

1) Copy the files from the P2 card to two (yes two) separate hard drives, through the laptop.

2) Do not even open FCP. There is no reason to ever even open FCP during a shooting session.

[doka15] “It seems like every other company DeckLink, Avid, AJA and so on that have a codec that is not standard in QT supply a free codec for people who need to work in that format that don’t have the hardware. I would asume that Panasonic would also offer this FREE codec to make it simple. Perhaps they do and I can’t find it or they are working on one or just don;t have one which some people in hear have said already.”

You’re finally getting it. “Non-Standard”… that means they didn’t follow the standards, so they HAVE to provide a codec. This isn’t a good thing, so you might want to stop describing it as though it were a better approach. Avid’s codec has always been inferior to FCP’s and still is. Even the Avid Instructor at the college where I teach FCP knows that.

[doka15] ” If I have him download the P2 viewer is that only to view the P2 media from the card or can he view the DVCpro 50 QT clips I gave him in that viewer?”

That’s for the original P2 files with all the metadata… some of which is lost when you convert them to FCP files.

[doka15] ” This is not a rant so please don’t read it like that. I am thankfull for the information all of you P2 brainiacs are providing me to help me get the most out of the equipment I know use.”

I don’t think we’re taking it that way. You made some mistakes and now they’ve caught up to you. It is always advisable to leave the media in the original (un-messed with) format. Take FCP out of the situation. If you had shot it for me, I wouldn’t want it washed through Avid, Canopus or Matrox either. I’d be unhappy if you had. Proprietary codecs are a way of life. If you want to split hairs, the only real one IS Apple’s, since FCP uses QuickTime natively (unaltered). Avid’s (and everyone elses) QuickTime codecs are the non-standard ones. And I think we can skip any discussion of AVI, with it’s file size limits and inability to maintain audio sync without constant behind the scenes toying. In short, you shoudn’t convert, but if you’re going to, FCP was as good a choice as any, since there are three times as many FCP systems in the world, as there are Avid’s.

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5

[Lars Wikstrom]

Mitch, the FCP vers. Avid I totaly agree with you. FCP has been my package since version 1. I guess I am just old school even though my BFA was in 94′ from Cal Arts and I want things simple. I like QT movies with 2 tracks of audio. .MOV’s are much better then .AVI like you mentioned too. MFX format from what I understand has everything seperated on the P2 card from audio, video, information and so on. FCP P2 import allows me to combined all that seperated data into one useable QT file, everything embeded the way I like to work.

As Jan mentioned Sony does not offer thier codecs which is now 1 more reason I’m glad I moved away from Sony products. And Mitch your right, other people are creating “Non-Standard” formats which causes them to offer their own codecs. But those codecs follow the standard for the computer they will be on. Apple is Quicktime. If I shot with a DVCpro 50 camera to tape and then digitized that into the computer I would need a Kona card, I/O, Decklink, Auorua and so on. This would then create a QT movie. Avid is in it’s own world but they offer a codec for the Apple enviornment. QT for windows is popular as well.

I understand what you guys are saying now and I have learned more about the new p2 format.But I know if Panasonic wanted to they could easily create a drop in codec for QT for Mac and Windows for the people who converted from the P2 format to Quicktime. I use Sound Soap to do audio cleaning. I can import QT files not the P2 MXF files.

So Panasonic, please create at least read only QT codec and put it on your website for FREE download.

Thanks,

-Lars