Can’t render MPEG-2 without resampling

[Danny Hays]

Try unchecking match project settings and under options preferences, theres a check box “enable no recompress long GOP rendering” Make sure that’s checked. FYI, if your just cutting and splicing, this option will not recompress video that has not been changed, like adding effects or resizing. If you change the video in any way other than length, it has to recompress it. Hope this helps, Danny Hays

[Kate Morris]

Thanks for the advice. Do you mean the “Adjust source media to better match project or render settings” box? I unchecked that, but it didn’t seem to stop the render resampling. The “long GOP rendering” is already checked.

I’m trying to render the file as a MainConcept MPEG-2 – as far as I know, it’s the only MPEG2 format that Vegas will render in. I have chosen the template “DVD Architect PAL Widescreen video stream”, because it is the only MPEG-2 render option that has 25fps, 720×576 and Pixel Aspect Ratio 1.457 as standard.

I have changed the default “Lower field first” to “Upper field first”, but it doesn’t seem to help. The format window mentions YUV, but there is no option to change that. Apart from “lower field first”, I left the other options at their defaults”:

Include video stream is ticked
Output Type DVD
Width 720 Height 576
Frame rate 25.000
Aspect ratio: 16:9 Display
I-frames: 12 B-frames 2
Insert I-frames at markers is checked
Profile: Main Level: Main
Field order: Upper field first
Prioritise quality over speed checked, set at maximum of 31
Insert sequence header before every GOP is checked
Bit rate is set as variable
Max: 9500000 Average: 6000000 Min: 192000

I’m not going to bore you with the Advanced Video Settings that appear incomprehensible to my untrained eye.

Anybody have any suggestions for me?

[Mike Kujbida]

In a recent thread, John Rofrano said “Vegas Pro only smart renders DV AVI, DV MXF, IMX MXF, HD MXF, MPEG-2 (for files such as those from HDV and DVD camcorders), and some XDCAM EX formats.”

Armed with that information, you’re going to have to render it.
If the program is less than 70 minutes long, use a custom CBR setting of 8,000,000 and the copy will be almost as good as the original.

[Kate Morris]

Thanks for replying Mike. That’s not good news for me – the raw MPEG-2 footage from the camera looks pretty good uploaded onto Youtube. Once it’s been resampled once or twice though …..

It’s a bit frustrating that a brand-new Sony camcorder (I foolishly bought it last month) is basically incompatible with Sony’s flagship video editing software. I live in a third-world country, they probably don’t sell SD cameras in your part of the world 🙂

Given that my footage is ultimately destined for youtube, do you think resampling to MainConcept MPEG-2 as per my “custom template” is the best way to re-render?

Also, is there any software that IS capable of editing simple cuts of my films without the need to resample?

[Mike Kujbida]

“It’s a bit frustrating that a brand-new Sony camcorder (I foolishly bought it last month) is basically incompatible with Sony’s flagship video editing software.”

Users are always blaming Sony but the reality is that the hardware and software divisions rarely if ever talk to each other.
I put the blame entirely on the Marketing division who pushes for new technology (which the consumer really doesn’t need) without bothering to find out if the user will be able to do anything with the footage other than shoot it.
For example, the miniDVD format was, IMO, a totally useless piece of garbage that companies sold lots of but is a real pain to edit.

“I live in a third-world country, they probably don’t sell SD cameras in your part of the world :)”

Here in Canada, they’re getting harder and harder to buy.
With all due respect, why would you buy an SD camera (unless it’s the price) when everything these days is some version of HD?

“Given that my footage is ultimately destined for youtube, do you think resampling to MainConcept MPEG-2 as per my “custom template” is the best way to re-render?”

Out of curiosity, have you tried an MPEG-2 render using the preset to confirm that it does recompress?
If it does, use the CBR suggestion I recommended earlier as I’ve done this a few times and could not notice a difference.
I’ve also had students bring in footage shot with MPEG-2 camcorders and I do the exact same thing.
No one has complained about the final quality.

“Also, is there any software that IS capable of editing simple cuts of my films without the need to resample?”

VideoReDo Plus is one often-recommended program that will do this.

[Kate Morris]

Users are always blaming Sony but the reality is that the hardware and software divisions rarely if ever talk to each other.

I know that blaming Sony is not really helpful, however I live in hope that a Sony representative might read this and other posts and decide that supporting SD MPEG-2 properly might add to their bottom line. If I ultimately put my Vegas license on ebay to recover some money, they will have effectively lost a sale.

With all due respect, why would you buy an SD camera (unless it’s the price) when everything these days is some version of HD?

The shop I bought it from only had 2 cameras – both were SD. The country I live in has crazy import tariffs, so high-end electronics are very expensive. And I’m far from wealthy, the price was definitely a consideration.

Also,I reasoned “My vids are going on Youtube, I don’t need them to be high-definition”. And I lack the bandwidth and the hard drive space to embrace HD.

Yes, I’ve tried the MPEG-2 render and it does recompress. On my stone age hardware,this means that I’m going to be spending a lot of time watching the progress bar. The end quality is good, as you say it is difficult to tell the difference with only one render. Once it is rendered in MainConcept MPEG-2, any re-renders display the message “No recompression required” in the preview window, which was what I’d been hoping to see all along.

So is it a good idea to upload to youtube in the MPEG-2 SD 720×576 format? Or should I be resampling again to a format that Youtube prefers?

Thank you for all the advice, I am new to the video editing game 🙂

[Mike Kujbida]

“however I live in hope that a Sony representative might read this and other posts and decide that supporting SD MPEG-2 properly might add to their bottom line”

That format is a rapidly dying, if not already dead one and Sony can’t be bothered put any more resources into it.

“The shop I bought it from only had 2 cameras – both were SD. The country I live in has crazy import tariffs, so high-end electronics are very expensive. And I’m far from wealthy, the price was definitely a consideration.”

Understood.

“So is it a good idea to upload to youtube in the MPEG-2 SD 720×576 format? Or should I be resampling again to a format that Youtube prefers?”

YouTube keeps changing the rules as to what the best upload format is.
If you have a newer version of Vegas (Pro 9 or 10, not sure about Movie Studio settings), the recommended render format for you is Sony AVC using one of the Internet presets.
There’s no need to resample as you would load the existing project and render out in that mode instead of MPEG-2.

[Kate Morris]

Well, I understand your viewpoint about MPEG-2 SD being a dying format, but there are still plenty of people using it – the expense of HD equipment and storing the data it generates is not insignificant to everybody. And people will be resurrecting MPEG-2 data from their old hard drives and DVDs now and for many years to come.

I did try rendering to AVC just now, 640×480 was the closest match to my video. I had a chuckle to myself, the quality was awful! Big blocks and smears all over the screen, a strange silvery effect, and of course no sound.

I’m sure I’m doing something wrong!

[Mike Kujbida]

OK, so AVC wasn’t such a good idea after all 🙁
As a test, try the Internet 1280×720-25p option and see if it looks any better.
Otherwise, stick with what you’ve done in the past as you’ve been happy with how it looks on YouTube.

[Kate Morris]

I appreciate your help and advice Mike, thanks for your time. I will give it a try at a higher resolution and see if that helps.

For now, I’m using the 30-day free trial of “Womble”, which lets me chop my MPEG-2 videos up as much as I want without rendering/resampling. If I need to add some dazzle, I’ll no doubt plug my losslessly trimmed files into Vegas and get to work.