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Broadcast quality
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[Jeremy Doyle] “Well I’m certainly not going to dig in the closet and pull out camera’s we haven’t used since 2005 to test what is a dead format to us.”
We currently use DV, DVCAM, DV50, DVCPro HD, HDV, BetaSP, DigiBeta, BetaSX, P2, XDCAM, EX1 / 3 and even VHS material interchanged almost daily. That’s why we have Kona 3’s in our shop to handle all the conversion to whatever we’re editing to.
I’ll take DVCAM material over regular DV any day.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
[Brandon Carter] “Ok…so how should I have FCP setup for ProRes 422? What settings need to be adjusted? I am stuck with the footage I already have and HD cam is not in the immediate future, so I need to maximize what I have.”
You get something like an AJA Kona LHi.
You connect your camera or VTR to this card.
You use an Easy Setup of AJA Kona ProRes to capture and edit.
Capture / Edit your project in an Apple ProRes Timeline.
Finish and then hand off the QT to the post production facility to lay directly from that QT to BetaSP tape. This way you maintain the higher quality of the Apple ProRes timeline instead of dumping back to DV tape.
If you have the funds to pick up a Sony UVW-1800 (around $6,000 or less used) you can lay directly to BetaSP tape from the Kona. Normally I would not recommend purchasing any SD equipment, but if you’re delivering a lot of BetaSP masters for this show, it’s worth it to have the machine. I swear we lay off more BetaSP masters than HD Masters today. We just can’t rid of the format!
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
Credits include multiple Emmy, Telly, Aurora and Peabody Awards.
Biscardi Creative MediaCreative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
OK…thanks for all the info. I am fairly new to all this but trying to learn as much as I can to make my show better. (my wife is the real editor) Now…why do I need a capture card if my firewire connection is already capturing at 100%? Thanks for everyone’s patience as I expand my knowledge! One more thing…am I going to see a noticeable difference in my quality?
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I have to say I completely agree with you Jeremy. The only difference between DV & DVCAM is tape speed. The picture quality is EXACTLY the same. There is a really good explanation at: https://www.adamwilt.com/DV.html
Here is a quick cut and paste from Adam Wilt’s site:
What’s the difference between DV, DVCAM, and DVCPRO?
Not a lot! The basic video encoding algorithm is the same between all three formats. The VTR sections of the US$16,500 DSR450 (DVCAM) or AJ-SDX900 (in DVCPRO25 mode) cameras will record no better an image than the VTR section of the cheapest DV consumer camcorder (please note: I am not saying that the camera section and lens of chead DV camcorder are the equals of the high-end pro and broadcast cameras: there are significant quality differences! But the video data recorded in all three formats is essentially identical, though there may be minor differences in the actual codec implementations). A summary of differences (and similarities) is tabled in Technical Details.
The consumer-oriented DV uses 10 micron tracks in SP recording mode. Sony’s DVCAM professional format increases the track pitch to 15 microns (at the loss of recording time) to improve tape interchange and increase the robustness and reliability of insert editing. Panasonic’s DVCPRO increases track pitch and width to 18 microns, and uses a metal particle tape for better durability. DVCPRO also adds a longitudinal analog audio cue track and a control track to improve editing performance and user-friendliness in linear editing operations.Newer DV camcorders offer an LP mode to increase recording times, but the 6.7 micron tracks make tape interchange problematic on DV machines, and prevents LP tapes from being played in most DVCAM or DVCPRO VTRs.
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[walter biscardi] “The tape transport runs faster, spreads the information across more tape, slightly less compression, slightly better color.”
No wonder.
My spreadsheets always looked crisper and sharper when I saved them to a 5.25 in. floppy back in the day. With the 3.5 in floppy the data is spread over a smaller surface and hence more compressed.And that also explains why even pictures look better on a MacPro than a MacBook Pro even if you connect them to the same monitor to compare. The MacBook Pro uses a 2.5 in hard disk so the data is more compressed than the MacPro’s 3.5 in hard drive. Less area.
I think there have been enough resources pointing to the fact that DV and DVCam process the same signal when recording to tape. Tape speed is different and tracks are wider, but that does not in any way contribute to quality.
DVCam camcorders recording to DVCam look better than DV camcorders recording to mini DV simply because the camera is better, not the recorder or the recording.
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
Brandon…
I would recommend getting something like a Blackmagic Decklink Extreme HD card and either buying or renting a Sony UVW-1800 Betacam deck.
Output from FCP directly to Betacam SP. That’s what I did early on and was able to maintain quality throughout the process.
Dubbing from DVCam or MiniDV to Betacam SP is probably the worst thing to do, no matter what facility you go to. Because it’s going to go through either a composite or Y/C connector, and those options aren’t anywhere as good as going through a component connector. And in my experience there are too many technicians who simply won’t care enough to make sure you get the best possible quality with what they have.
If you’re doing this for a nationally distributed product, then the cost of doing the mastering yourself is worth it to protect your reputation.
Dean Sensui — Hawaii Goes Fishing
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Just going to chuck my 2pennorth’ in here.
DV, if shot on a decent camera and lens (the one you’re shooting on is wayy better than the PD150 level) is capable of producing pleasing images. if not the last byword in quality. the problem is that DV format breaks down as soon as you add effects (colour correction etc) and graphics (supers and lower 3rds). It’s just not designed to handle that to anywhere near an acceptable level.
You’re capturing DV/DVCam via Firewire. If you don’t have a capture card, the workflow I would use is this:-
Capture via Firewire
Edit in a native DV sequence to picture lock
create a new sequence – use the presets to make it ProRes(non HQ) or Uncompressed 8-bit (ask the post house doing the final transfer to Beta what they’d prefer)
Select all clips from your DV sequence, then copy (cmd-C)
Paste in to new sequence
Take a look at one of the clips in the new sequence by double-clicking, then look at the Filters tab in the Canvas. It should have the Shift Fields filter on it. If so, then…
Render out to QT using File-export-Quicktime Movie. Keep current settings and make self-contained. Give this to the post house.
That will preserve the best quality without going to the expense of a Kona card, BUT….
You really should be upping the ante for broadcast work. I’d argue that trying to edit ANY video for ANY purpose without an external monitor is hampering you to an unacceptable degree, unless you’re merely ‘offlining’ and someone else is going to take control of the final deliverables. I’d not tackle a broadcast job without the bare minimum of a capture card, decent monitor and a good working knowledge of broadcast standards. If you have an older Mac setup, you could find a SH SD capture card (one of the older BlackMagics) and a decent SD monitor for less than a thousand bucks. Without that you’ll never really know what you’re getting – .
jason
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Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
Then when you do criticise him, you’ll be a mile away. And have his shoes.*the artist formally known as Jaymags*
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[Jason Porthouse] “Take a look at one of the clips in the new sequence by double-clicking, then look at the Filters tab in the Canvas. It should have the Shift Fields filter on it. If so, then… “
Why would you want the shift fields filter on. It’s going from SD to SD so it should maintain lower field dominance.
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Wow…Lots of GREAT info you guys are offering in this thread. I’m afraid that we have focused on other issues to try and maintain high quality in the production process. However we have fallen short on this end. Its not that my broadcast is all that bad….its just that I know it can be better.
Now, the question that no one has answered yet…what exactly does the capture card do, whether we are talking a Kona or Black Magic etc… On the capturing side I mean…I know the purpose for the card in regards to using the Beta Recorder, but what does it do for the capture end of the process?
Again, thanks for all the wonderful info you guys are offering….this has been very enlightening!
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[Brandon Carter] “what exactly does the capture card do, whether we are talking a Kona or Black Magic etc… On the capturing side I mean…I know the purpose for the card in regards to using the Beta Recorder, but what does it do for the capture end of the process?”
It will do a realtime transcode to other formats freeing your computer from long software transcodes. It will give you a better monitoring connections. I’m assuming because you’re using dv you’re just hooking your deck up to a monitor and feeding the deck with the firewire. With a capture card you can go right from the computer to the monitor avoiding some latency issues. The higher end cards also allow for realtime upconvert and cross-converts.
Then there’s the whole output side which you already understand.
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