Best Cam for School Productions/Musicals/Events

[Brent Dunn]

I always shoot in HD and then downconvert. Your final output will still look better in detail than if you started in SD.

I have multiple deliver. I can deliver the HD in Vimeo for a download, SD on DVD, HD on BluRay. It always gives you options. If you only shoot in SD, then you can’t go up.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite

[Brent Dunn]

CS5 and now 5.5 will save you encoding time. The workflow is much smoother than earlier versions. You can just go from your timeline into Encore without encoding. Encoding happens within Encore.

I’m in education, so I know how it is to scream and kick for a budget. I got tired of waiting, so I started writing grants. There is a lot of grant money out there just waiting for you. You just have to take the time to go get it. Of course after I stopped teaching the TV class and went into a computer course, the new person got a big budget with all new equipment, new iMac’s, etc. Of course, she was much prettier than me.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite

[Mark Suszko]

That’s nice for you, Brent, but IMO his situation is different from yours, and at that budget level HD only adds expense and time-wasting complications. Especially since his final output is an mpeg 2 DVD. Your way would have somewhat better quality, but would cost him longer time in the transcoding and down-conversion, plus more hard drive space.

And for what? This isn’t Live from Lincoln Center he’s doing. It’s a step up from handheld, camera-mic-only home movies. These things are full of trade-offs and it’s all about what is the appropriate amount of time and trouble for the appropriate level of quality. If he can give the parents fast turn-around on a SD DVD with quality audio on it and a *reasonable picture*, without additional expense or time spent, he’s met his goal. I understand about future-protecting the footage in HD but then again, at this level, these are what they call ephemeral events, unlikely to ever result in a call-back to re-do the project for a film-out and festival showing:-)

HD downconverted to SD on a DVD is a *little* nicer than a lossless SD picture exported to that same DVD… but you gotta ask: is it x amount of dollars-worth-better? Is being ten percent better worth the extra time and money? In this guy’s case, I’d say perfect is the enemy of the good-enough. When he can build up more and better tech with a real budget, then of course this debate should be revisited.

But don’t sell him on needing a Corvette when a used Camry would suit him well enough. Proportion. In all things.

[Conor Beattie]

I’ll be honest, I am a little reluctant to buy a second hand SD miniDV cam. Technically I’m not supposed to buy anything second hand but management are turning a blind eye to this as I have been pestering them for years. We’re in a recession here in Ireland, and cutbacks in education mean $3000 for something new is out of the question. Therefore I’m stuck in the second hand market. In my budget, I can afford a number of reliable SD tape cams, but I would concerned at their age: the tape loading mechanism on a 5 year old camera is bound to be more susceptible to damage. So, that is another compromise to factor in.

Regarding down converting etc, it’s not much of a problem for me to edit these files using Premiere Pro CS5.5 on our new iMacs in native AVCHD, export in full quality overnight, then encode/burn to DVD the next day or night.

As it is, I’ll trial this ridiculously cheap Sony Nex VG 10. The main problem I have with it is that there is no button/rocker for the zoom. Zoom is adjusted using the ring only. I can see problems ahead with close-ups. In addition, it’s sensor provides very shallow depth of field: not ideal for shooting action on a stage or a pitch.

The positive here is that I bought it at a price below market value. I could resell, with luck, and acquire a different model. I like the look of the xa 10 to be honest…n

[Conor Beattie]

I’ll be honest, I am a little reluctant to buy a second hand SD miniDV cam. Technically I’m not supposed to buy anything second hand but management are turning a blind eye to this as I have been pestering them for years. We’re in a recession here in Ireland, and cutbacks in education mean $3000 for something new is out of the question. Therefore I’m stuck in the second hand market. In my budget, I can afford a number of reliable SD tape cams, but I would concerned at their age: the tape loading mechanism on a 5 year old camera is bound to be more susceptible to damage. So, that is another compromise to factor in.

Regarding down converting etc, it’s not much of a problem for me to edit these files using Premiere Pro CS5.5 on our new iMacs in native AVCHD, export in full quality overnight, then encode/burn to DVD the next day or night.

As it is, I’ll trial this ridiculously cheap Sony Nex VG 10. The main problem I have with it is that there is no button/rocker for the zoom. Zoom is adjusted using the ring only. I can see problems ahead with close-ups. In addition, it’s sensor provides very shallow depth of field: not ideal for shooting action on a stage or a pitch.

The positive here is that I bought it at a price below market value. I could resell, with luck, and acquire a different model. I like the look of the xa 10 to be honest…not widely available here at the minute, so hard to get at the right price.

By the way, I appreciate all the advice you have both provided at this stage. It’s helped me work out a few things. Theres a steep learning curve when one begins dabbling in this kind of thing, and it’s good to have experienced users around who are happy to share their wisdom.

[Ron Bergeron]

Okay, I know this is an older thread and no one asked me for my 2 cents…

I shoot on mini-DV in HD (with a Canon XHA1 or Canon HV30) and if I don’t need the project to be HD (which I don’t always decide at the time of shooting) I just transfer the tape(s) as AVI’s to my PC (typically Sony Vegas Pro since that NLE is fairly easy to use for intermediate videographers like me).

So if I want HD, I offload as HDV (a setting on the XHA1) and it transfers as m2t files. But if I want standard def (in 16:9) I just offload as DV and in fact Vegas asks me how I want to do it anyway. (BTW, transferring HD tapes using the Canon HV30 doesn’t seem to allow for HD, and I haven’t been able to figure that out, but that’s another story.)

Now, I can’t comment on assests done in 24p because I only shoot in the 1080i setting. I am not a “film producer” or worried about what the artsy community thinks. I shoot as if for TV or DVD final destination, even if the stuff ends up as a YouTube or Vimeo product. I keep things at 29.97 and concentrate on content more than artsy-ness. No offense. Maybe when I get that kind of a project, I’ll worry about that.

Most of my stuff is events-oriented. Plays, local art and cultural events, music concerts, sports.

So, not sure what all the fuss is over shooting in HD and down-converting. I don’t take any extra measures except transferring either in what I shot in (HDV 1080 60i which gives me an m2t file) or transferring as standard def (DV which goves me an AVI file).

BTW, I bought my Canon Vixia HV30 (uses mini-DV) used at B&H for $599 last year. I love it.

Ron
Star City Fame