Best Cam for School Productions/Musicals/Events

[Mark Suszko]

If not used weekly, why own them, if you can rent? You can usually rent a better camera for the same amount of money versus owning. And when you don’t use it, you don’t pay for it. These kinds of events are scheduled far in advance so setting up a rental should be easier.

[Conor Beattie]

It costs around €150 for me to hire one of these, so if the cam is rolled out 3 times a year, within 3 years I’ve covered the cost of a second hand model. My geographical location also makes it inconvenient to hire. If it were that simple…also, I’d like to have the thing at my disposal.

[Mark Suszko]

OTOH, in three years you will have… a 3-year-old camera. Whereas if you rent, you will always have a rather newer camera. But if you insist…..

Mini-DV based camcorders ARE getting harder to find, everything is trending to file-based recording. But I would not panic yet if a DV or HDV camcorder is your desire, since the used cam market will be good. You could get an excellent deal for example on the Panasonic HVX200, which had an internal tape drive using DV tape, as well as two P2 card slots. Now, I am not a fan of P2, I think the cards are too darned expensive. But it works well for a lot of people. Ebay’s got them for around US $1,500. You have the option of DV or HD recording, which somewhat protects your investment over time. A wide screen anamorphic SD or HD picture will grab more of a stage in the frame, which can’t be bad for school plays and concerts. It has real XLR inputs for audio, a must. Any of the last-generation Sony DV camcorders would also serve you well, I should think.

[Conor Beattie]

Thanks for your input Mark. The Panasonic you mention is a little out of my budget, even second hand.

The Sony HVR HD 1000 is more achievable for me in terms of cost, but some users suggest it’s not great in low light or theatrical lighting – no good for the school musical.

The XL2 is also in the similar price range for me, but I’ve just started thinking about buying a DSLR like the T2i, but this is a whole new field of research for me…I wonder would it be practical to use something like this (any of the new video DSLRs) for jobs such as filming a school concert, or a musical. The cam would be on a tripod and there’d be minimal zooming or panning.

[Mark Suszko]

I would stay away from using a DSLR for your school plays and concerts because of the time limitations to their file sizes. You’d very likely have to stop in the middle of a piece and resume, a couple of times. True, might only lose a second or two, but that will stick out like a sore thumb on the master. And by the time you trick out a stills cam to be used as a proper video cam, IMO you’ve spent as much as a purpose-made video camera.

As to the Panny being out of your budget, think about it as 1500 bucks divided into three years, or however many shows you’re going to shoot in that time. Tell me you’re not doing this completely for free, are you? If not, then you should be able to pay the thing off with a very modest fee for just a year’s worth of performances. Then it’s “free” for however long it continues to work for you.

[Conor Beattie]

Doing it free? Depends how you look on it. I’m a teacher and get paid, so from that point of view I’m not doing it for free. However, it’s not part of my job description, so I do it voluntarily…the way I see it I get to play with lots of nice cameras and computers and things, convincing people our school would be much happier if we had a nice entry level shoulder mount HD camera, etc.

I’ll take on board your point about the Panny. However I do have a budget and it is for non-essential items, so I don’t want to push it.

[Brent Dunn]

I also work in a school, so I understand tight budgets. I can give you a bunch of choices, but I need to know exactly how much they are giving you.

Here’s a canon for under $2,000
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/749467-REG/Canon_4922B002_XA10_HD_Professional_Camcorder.html

B&H video and Armato’s have used gear. I’d go with a camera that takes SD cards since they are cheap. If you film football or soccer games, you’ll need a good zoom, 12x or higher is preferred.

DSLR is out of the question. You can’t film live performances and keep the focus with all the live action with a DSLR.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Films
DunnRight Video.com
Video Marketing Toolbox.net

Sony EX-1,
Canon 5D Mark II
Canon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
Adobe CS-5 Production Suite

[Conor Beattie]

My budget is low: none of the people holding the purse strings seem to think its worth shelling out. I just acquired a very cheap Sony Nex VG10E. €800 ($1000) in mint condition. I dont think it’s going to make me very happy, as it only shoots in 1080 and that’s going to continue to create problems for DVD. However I can resell, so my budget is roughly $1800.

I think I may be better off trying very hard to ignore HD (at the same time acknowledging the quality of true hd shots) and focus on a SD cam, possibly recording to miniDv. I have a small Panasonic which is great for capturing anything I might upload (HD upload to YouTube is brilliant). For the larger projects ( such as the recent school musical which I wish I had a decent camera for) which end up in parents’ DVD players (only about 1 in 5 have a Blu Ray player) I should shoot in SD, on something like an XL2

The camera you recommend is HD isn’t it? What’s your end product? Web? DVD? Blu Ray? How well does it down convert to DVD?

[Mark Suszko]

Conor, it sounds like you just don’t have the money to work in HD and you may not need it, for the things you want to do. I work in both HD and SD anamorphic wide screen, but the SD wide screen stuff is still 90 percent of what we work in for broadcast. If you’re going to make DVD’s of stage plays, SD anamorphic is a shortcut to that in terms of storage, rendering, etc.

So I guess you should look for DV camcorders that can shoot anamorphic SD. DVD production from there is fast and easy.

But I am concerned that you’re setting yourself up for failure with your school officials when they just really don’t understand what things cost. The typical chain of events that come from this situation is:
They ask you to work to a target price.
You make a LOT of compromises to come in at or under that figure.
You hate the results because it forces frustrating workflows on you, or other restrictions.
They hate the results because it doesn’t match their unrealistic expectations.
You now lose credibility as someone who knows what they are doing.
The authorities become vulnerable to someone else taking over the program, promising better stuff.
Somebody suggests Uncle Leo or Cousin Jimmy should take over.
Everything takes a huge step backwards, and they re-invent the program from scratch, going over the same ground again and again. Though you explain why such-and-such won’t work, they have stopped believing you.

More than solving your immediate camera problem, I think you need to solve the perception problem of what it takes to do the job right. Sell them on a multiyear acquisition plan, and work hard on finding people outside of the school to help underwrite it. Just as one idea, look at having some local business like the Coke or Pepsi distributor, or a family restaurant or the local mom and pop video movie rental chain, buy you a nice camera or pair of cameras. Put their logos and perhaps even a 30-second announcement on the front of every DVD you make of school events.

Or tap the local student community: some families may own better quality cameras hey can lend you.

The bottom line is, think outside the box, and don’t let an artificial limit define the job.

[Conor Beattie]

That’s a fairly accurate description of the situation Mark! There’s not much danger of anyone taking the work though unfortunately. I do this voluntarily, which is why I struggle to get the cash. However I’ve going to road test this Sony Nex for a few wks. If I don’t get good results with DVD with it I’ll sell and pick up a second hand SD like you suggest.

I’m currently editing in Premiere Pro and experimenting with different encodings and burning workflows, including Adobe Media Encoder, Compressor and toast. I’ve had reasonable results by exporting as H264 then dropping this in toast for the DVD conversion. It looks a bit better than using Media Encoder for the DVD.