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Bagged on NDF Timecode
If you cut 720 material using the DVCPro HD codec in Final Cut Pro 5.0.3 or higher, do NOT output timecode via Firewire if you are mastering for broadcast requiring drop frame timecode.
I know we’ve had this discussion on this forum in the past, but 720 DVCPro HD 23.98 and 59.94 are both Non-Drop Frame formats in Final Cut Pro even they sound like they should be DF. After Jeff Merrit told me about Final Cut Pro now outputting timecode via Firewire, I decided to let FCP feed TC to the 1200A for a series of 8 broadcast shows. Those show masters were then dubbed over to HDCAM using the 1200A to feed TC as well to ensure a perfect TC match.
All 8 shows (and their textless versions) were rejected by the network due to timecode being NDF. I completely forgot about FCP being NDF only with 720p. So now I’m going back to my old method of leaving the TC on Internal, presetting the TC on the 1200A and then making an Assemble Edit at 00:59:00:00. The deck will then Regen the timecode and it will be DF as that’s what the deck is set to.
So just a word of warning to those of you working in 720 and DVCPro HD and wanting to simply lay out TC via Firewire. I even mentioned this in an earlier post as a great way to ensure perfectly matched TC from the timelines. 1080 DVCPro HD is fine, you can create DF timelines in FCP.
And yes, I said an Assemble Edit and do not correct me on it this time because the 1200A can make an Assemble Edit when controlled via Firewire. You can call it a crash edit, I call it an Assemble Edit because Final Cut Pro has control of the deck when the edit happens.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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6 Replies
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Walter,
The issue is paramount when shooting in 24P dvcpro,or hdcam as there is not option for DF only NDF.
It is standard practice for broadcasters to require drop frame as their world depends on critical to the minute accuracy with real clock time versus timecode. I never deliver any masters for broadcast unless they are DF.
Sorry to hear this one got by you but it happens to the best of us.
Tony Salgado
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[tony salgado] “I never deliver any masters for broadcast unless they are DF.”
I never do either, but the NDF feed from Final Cut Pro got by me on this one. I wasn’t even thinking about that as I just totally forgot that 59.94, 23.98 720 is not DF despite the frame rates. This was the first time I tried the whole Firewire TC thing and it really burned us so I wanted to remind everyone here about the NDF TC.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Walt,
Just another story that shows that FCPRO is FCAmature when it comes to timecode handling.
We need a timecode stream from the timeline in FCP not just the first frame.
Sorry to hear you got caught on this one.
David
Peace and Love 🙂
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[David Battistella] “We need a timecode stream from the timeline in FCP not just the first frame.”
It WAS a timecode stream from FCP, it was just NDF though because that’s all FCP can generate in 720p.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Here is what I meant Walter.
Final Cut Pro only ever sends one frame of timecode from the timline. It is not a TRUE audio Timecode stream. You are correct, FCP sends the timecode down the firewire stream but after the FIRST FRAME, it just stops counting, the deck is doing all of the TC generation from there. This is why you can send a NDF sequence out and record a DF sequence.
Remember in the old AVID days when you would always get TC mismatch errors when doing digital cut’s? That was because the AVID was sending the actual frame by frame TC data down the RS-422. That is not the case with FCP. it only ever sends the Very first frame from the Timeline, but the timeline itself NEVER generates the TimeCode.
Programs like Premiere actually send an Audio TC signal off the timeline that can be extracted, put into a patchbay, distributed etc. FCP does nOT do this.
david
Peace and Love 🙂
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[David Battistella] “This is why you can send a NDF sequence out and record a DF sequence.”
David, the way it was explained to me is that FCP now sends true timecode via Firewire starting with FCP 5.0.3. The deck was set to DF, but it was set to External Timecode input.
The Timecode from FCP is NDF, that’s what the deck recorded. If I leave the deck on Internal TC and leave it set to DF, then that’s what I get on my tape, DF timecode even though FCP is an NDF timecode.
So in the case of Firewire output to a Firewire deck you will get true timecode from FCP so long as you are using FCP 5.0.3 or above and set your deck to external timecode. If you are using a lower version of FCP, then it performs exactly as you say.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.comDirector, “The Rough Cut”
https://www.theroughcutmovie.comNow Posting “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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