-
Avid VS Premiere VS FCPX VS Edius?
-
[Shane Ross] “[andy patterson] “Can FCPX out put any aspect ratio using the AVDC 110 or the Intensity Shuttle? ”
The Canopus is SD only…so only output ratio it does is 4:3. The Intensity Shuttle does HD and SD…so it can output 16:9 HD…and even downconvert that to 4:3 SD…either letterboxed or squeezed.”
That is true but Edius could not output 4K or even HD using the ADVC 110. Edius could output SD timelines only. That is what the ADVC 110 was designed to do. Premiere Pro added some extra functionality. Premiere could also output 4K to HD. Edius could not. The Intensity Shuttle was only designed for HD but Premiere can get a little extra functionality out of the device by outputting a 4K timeline using the Shuttle.
[Shane Ross] “[andy patterson] “Can Sony Vegas out put 1800 X 800 using the Intensity Shuttle?”
No. Those IO devices only do broadcast frame sizes….720×480, 720×486, 1280×720, 1920×1080. 1800×800 isn’t a video signal format…none of them output to that.”
It would not have the pixels count of 1800 X 800 but Sony Vegas may have a retain aspect ratio option for the Intensity Shuttle. I wish Premiere Pro did. Premiere does have that option for all IEEE Fire Wire DV converts (not just the ADVC 110). Premiere can output 2100 X 800 to the ADVC 110. Edius would not. It is kind of cool to do 1200 X 400 banner ads for website on the old SD monitor using the Canopus ADVC 110. The 1200 X 400 does get down converted to SD (720 X 480) but the motion graphics are super smooth. I also like the look of the CRT monitors. I am not saying FCPX cannot do the same thing. I admit most people are not going to output Red One R3D 4.5K to mini DV tape or Digital Beta. I just like seeing my website work on the SD monitor as a reference.
-
[andy patterson] ” With Premiere Pro it can also output any resolution and any aspect ration to SD. You could out put 1800 X 800 and the aspect ration would be correct although it would be down converted to 720 X 480. “
Ahhhh. I’m getting what you are saying now.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “[andy patterson] “Premiere Pro just pushed both devices beyond their intended purpose. ”
In what way? Their intended purpose is to input and output a video signal. What does Premiere do to them beyond that?”
Edius 8.0 can output HD using the Intensity Shuttle but not a native Red One R3D 4k timeline. Premiere could do it. I am not saying Avid and FCPX cannot. Edius also needed the timeline to be a broadcast compliant format as well. Premiere Pro can output just about anything.
[Shane Ross] “[andy patterson] “Who knows maybe FCPX or Avid can get even more functionality out of 3rd party devices than Premiere Pro.”
What functionality are you looking for? AJA/BMD/MATROX all offer hardware up conversion and down conversion…and HD cross conversion. And scaling from 4K to HD and SD. What else are you expecting? NO NLE utilized them for any hardware acceleration of any sort.”
I know you responded to my other comments but in case other people missed it. For IEEE DV devices Premiere can maintain aspect ratio (hardware or software) so you can take a 1200 X 400 video projects for websites and see it on the old CRT monitor. Edius could only use standard NTSC timline with the ADVC 110. I wish there was an option to maintain the aspect ration when using the Intensity Shuttle with Premiere Pro but perhaps it would make the Mercury Playback Engine explode : )
Maybe Avid, FCPX or Sony Vegas can maintain the aspect ratio of 1800 x 800 by letter boxing using the Intensity Shuttle. Premiere could not and Edius will not output anything other than what the hardware was designed for. I would love to use my two computer monitors for for the GUI and use the Intensity Shuttle for real-time playback for anything from 4K and HD content to banner ads at 1200 X 400. Premiere does a good job overall but I wish I could make it work with the Intensity Shuttle using any aspect ratio. I felt let down that Premiere Pro could not and that is why I tested Edius. In the process of testing Edius I found Premiere Pro capable of doing much more than the Edius software. I wish I had a Mac and FCPX to test out FCPX.
-
I had to check the date of the original post – I thought I had lost it for a moment. Maybe someone will post if I can use my Digisuite with FCPX to capture from my XL1?
It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.
Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 -
[Lance Bachelder] “I had to check the date of the original post – I thought I had lost it for a moment. Maybe someone will post if I can use my Digisuite with FCPX to capture from my XL1?”
I remember the Digisuite systems from Matrox as well as the DPS Velocity systems and even the True Vision Products before Pinnacle bought them out and later Avid bought Pinnacle. Of course Pinnacle also bought out Fast Multimedia and a few others.
My first video card was a Pinnacle System DC 10+. I also used to have a Matrox RT 2000. Then I bought the Pinnacle Pro One and later the Canopus DV Storm. I used the Canopus Storm the most.
I love using 3rd party hardware for client previews.
I wish other people would post images of their editing suites and their results.
-
In the interests of people coming here for information.
My friend Patrick Southern was the AE on “OJ Speaks, the Hidden Tapes” programs for A&E and as such, had to digitize MOUNTAINS of depositions and historical content off all sorts of tapes from 1″ to BetaSP to VHS.
He and producer Chuck Braverman did a TON of testing regarding conversions and digitizations seeking the highest quality conversions to air.
In the end, they dumped ALL the external box approaches including those via high-end Hollywood transfer services – and simply plugged in appropriate tape decks via Firewire and digitized directly into X.
THAT provided them the highest quality transfers. And that’s what aired.
I have used the <$200 BlackMagic Designs Video Recorder dongle to transfer VHS, S-VHS, Hi-8 and other sources into X via vanilla USB and have had exactly the same results.
It’s easy to overthink this.
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
I’m going to have to ask Patrick what they did for the several projects I onlined for them…one of them being LOST TAPES: PEARL HARBOR. I know for that one we had the National Archives telecine the film to ProRes files, and a lot of the other footage used was from archives already in digital form. But I do know they had lots of tapes too. I think that they used the Kona 3 and the AJA software, but I’ll ask.
[Bill Davis] “In the end, they dumped ALL the external box approaches including those via high-end Hollywood transfer services – and simply plugged in appropriate tape decks via Firewire and digitized directly into X.”
I’m going to ask about this too. It’s an OK approach, because you can then convert the footage via Compressor for decent results. Although the Kona upscales in a much cleaner and better way.
[Bill Davis] “THAT provided them the highest quality transfers. And that’s what aired.”
No…it wasn’t the highest quality…but it is an acceptable quality to many. Highest quality would be those expensive services (Alchemist, Terranex) or AJA box. But it was a decent transfer. I myself have used Compressor to upconvert files that I’ve received digitally only, and it’s pretty good.
[Bill Davis] “It’s easy to overthink this.”
When dealing with really crappy footage already, often we can get away with those other means, because the image is so poor to begin with, that you can’t tell the difference if you used a Terranex or if you used Compressor. I know this due to years of personal experience doing it.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Bill Davis] “My friend Patrick Southern was the AE on “OJ Speaks, the Hidden Tapes” programs for A&E and as such, had to digitize MOUNTAINS of depositions and historical content off all sorts of tapes from 1″ to BetaSP to VHS.”
[Bill Davis] “In the end, they dumped ALL the external box approaches including those via high-end Hollywood transfer services – and simply plugged in appropriate tape decks via Firewire and digitized directly into X.”
I have never used 1″ tape but I used to work with 3/4″ and Beta before the digital formats hit the market. The generic IEEE Fire Wire DV converters are the simplest to use and probably the best option for SD content. No drivers needed for FCP, Premiere, Avid, Vegas etc. I have the Canopus ADVC 110 but Canopus used to make some $350-$850.00 DV converts. The more expensive DV converters have BNC connectors and also offer full deck control. I was told Canopus no longer makes any converters. I don’t doubt that is true. There used to be about 8 or 9 companies making them back in the day for as little as $99.99. Companies like ADS, Dazzle, Pinnacle, DAC, Canopus and many more. It was a real inexpensive way to monitor SD content on a broadcast quality monitor. I hate to look at interlaced video on the computer screen.
-
There’s a long thread somewhere on the forum during the earlier debates about whether there were any visible advantages to going the Terrenex route over the direct FireWire deck transfers.
I reached out to my old friend tech journalist Adam Wilt at the time for guidance.
IIRC, the upshot of his technically informed opinion was that if the original recording has limited signal bandwidth, there’s no improvement to be gained via an improved capture method.
So for me, that’s that.
If you’re digitizing higher Rez sources, Terrenex all the way. But a VHS, or even Hi-8 tape? Waste of resources.
YMMV.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “If you’re digitizing higher Rez sources, Terrenex all the way. But a VHS, or even Hi-8 tape? Waste of resources. “
I have to differ, having just done a bunch of this. The point of the Teranex units is high-quality upscaling, not 1:1 capture. If you have SD and want it in 1080, 2K, etc. the Teranex will give you superior results. Remember that in this process you often also want to de-interlace, noise-reduce and otherwise enhance the footage. So when you are specifically talking about Teranex and not a capture card per se, this device will give you those results in real-time. If you can stomach long render times, then you might get close with Compressor – or you might not. In software, so far I like the built-in scaling in Resolve the best.
If you are comparing just capture, such as Kona versus Firewire, that’s a different story. However, even there, when I did a lot of this in the past, I got better results using AJA Io instead Firewire into a Mac. Part of the reason for this, I believe, is that the component analog or SDI conversion circuitry within a decent DV deck tended to smooth over image artifacts that were simply passed through over Firewire.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up