Avid and FCP

[Terence Curren]

This has to be a setup.

I’ll bite. I have both systems and I experience exactly what you are mentioning with FCP. Avid is far more stable. That comes at the price of flexibility. FCP is far more flexible.

There are plenty of folks who claim they have no problems with FCP. I think they are using the system in exactly the same way day after day and have long since figured out the workarounds for the bugs in the system.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca

[Michael Todd]

I know most people will think it’s opinion, but I think it’s fact. You will get more editing done on an Avid verses FCP. In the early days of DNA hardware on Mac’s that wasn’t true. Especially in the past year it has been very solid. Avid on PC has been pretty rock solid for several years, minus a few little glitches along the way.
Find a local reseller who is willing to let you use the software for a few days/weeks, if you do like it, make sure you buy from them, it’s only fair. Or rent the dongle from them or someone else. Take it for an extended test drive. Make sure you have access to someone that can get you started. The way the timeline works is a little different than FCP. In the end that difference makes you faster.
Check this out:
https://www99.epinions.com/reviews/Avid_SOFTWARE_MEDIA_COMPOSER_7500_20000_01

[Dylan Reeve]

I’d say yes, definitely Avid is a lot better at just working.

However, for someone with an FCP background that’s probably going to be a false economy at first, as while you might be able to spend more time just editing, there is going to be a fair bit of adjusting to do, which will slow you down (although once you get used to it, I’m certainly you’d be faster).

It will also depend on what you’re doing. FCP is probably better suited to some types of work. Personally I feel confident that I can do just about anything I want in Avid, but I’ve been using it for years and learned a huge amount, and a lot of things may be more intuitive in FCP.

For my money, FCP doesn’t come close to Avid in terms of pure efficiency for cutting footage. Just editing. It is also much better tuned for offline/online workflow, with really powerful media management and good batch capture tools. But outside this paradigm things can sometime be a little tricky. While Avid is getting better, FCP still has some advantages in some file-based workflows.

What Avid lacks that FCP offers is format flexibility. With a Decklink HD Extreme card we are able to capture uncompressed HD into our FCP suite, something we can’t do in any of our Avid suites (and won’t be able to do until we get a Mojo DX at a significantly higher price than the BM card).

[Daniel Stone]

Thanks guys for the responses. Excellent information and very much along the lines of what I’ve heard and experienced.

I think I’ve gotten to the point where I’ve outgrown Final Cut Studio. There are so many problems that the ‘convenience features’ are actually not very convenient at all. I need something rock solid and reliable.

Thanks again!

[Scott Thomas]

It doesn’t appear that you’ve asked many questions in the FCP forum. Are you sure you haven’t exhausted all avenues of figuring out your problems? I know those with the exact opposite situation as yours.

You should educate yourself about other products, and see what Avid offers. You should also ask your question in the FCP forum.

[Dylan Reeve]

I don’t think I’ve met anyone with the opposite problem. Most Avid users are perfect happy with the stability and usability of their system (assuming it’s a supported configuration etc) – but look to FCP for it’s extra features and lower cost-of-entry for HD work (certainly why we dropped cash on an FCP setup).

If your work doesn’t call for those things, or if that stuff exists further down the production workflow (in an online for example) then Avid tends to be rock solid.

There are always solutions (same is true of Avid problems) but there often comes a point (like Daniel said in his first post) where it no longer seems worth the time and effort to consistently be working around things when another option may offer a more suitable solution.

That said, you don’t have to choose… Avid will run happily on the same system (although Avid does not yet support Leopard) and the cost of entry for Avid has dropped significantly recently, and there’s a pretty good second-hand market for Avid Mojo hardware if you want to go that way.

Right now I am using Avid MC 2.8 on our Mac Pro, later today I’ll be using FCP 6.0.2 on the same system.

[Scott Cumbo]

Leopard will be supported when Media Composer 3.0 comes out next month.

I use both FCP and Avid at work and feel that Avid is just more stable.

Media composer is worth the extra money. But I can see the attraction of FCP especially for the small 1 man shops.

Scott Cumbo
Editor
Broadway Video, NYC

[Scott Thomas]

By opposite, I didn’t mean that my contacts were having problems with Avid, just that they weren’t having serious issues, keeping them from being productive in FCP.

Perhaps if Daniel had posted some of his issues in the FCP forum, people there could help him out. Also, if there are particular issues in FCP that are obviated by moving to Avid, I think that would be helpful to know. I just thought Daniel was kind of “leading the witness” with his line of questioning. What specific issue(s)?

[Todd Obernolte]

Dan,

I am curious as to what “work arounds” your writing about?

To answer your original question

“Is an Avid any better or is this aggravation just part of the job, no matter what system you use?”

I work at a station that has been using Avid for awhile but upon my hiring, purchased a MAC pro and the FCP Studio 2 bundle, and Adobe CS3 premium bundle. I spent sometime using the Avid until the FCP system came in. In short, I found the Avid system to be very cumbersome to use with a lot of “restsrictions” in its work flow, integration with AE and other adobe products I use regularly. I service 2 stations at once as the commercial producer and handle about 20 to 30 account reps everyday. So I don’t have time for that “aggravation” your talking about. For me expedition and integration are key to my daily success and that is something that in my experience Avid doesn’t deliver on. I have had trouble shooting issues from both systems, however when both are operating without the “aggravation” my money is on FCP.

Best of luck to you

[Kevin Monahan]

“Is an Avid any better or is this aggravation just part of the job, no matter what system you use?”

Short answer: Yes

However, you really should learn both systems so you can use the best each system has to offer. Also, so you won’t turn down any editing jobs.

I like Avid a lot, especially the Trim Edit function, Dig Tool and Media Management. The big 3, I call ’em. For a feature, I’d probably cut it on Avid. As far as speed, I can cut just as fast, if not faster on FCP. You just have to know all the shortcuts and you can operate FCP 100% from the keyboard (much more deep than Avid shortcuts).

If you come from learning the Avid first, FCP is very liberating and fairly intuitive (though the first two weeks are total HELL). If you try it the other way ’round (learning FCP first), it’s going to be much more difficult. Avid has a lot more rules, but if you abide by them and take advantage of them, you can really cruise. Especially with narrative.

Two different tools. Two different workflows. My advice, “Don’t Think Avid will work the same way as FCP”. Find the FCP way, and just do it that way rather than saying, “But in the Avid we can…”. You’re wasting your own time. Best thing is to hire one on one training from someone that can edit on both programs.

The problem with FCP is too many formats and too many goofballs setting up FCP the wrong way for the intended format. I’ve even gotten burned by this. Too many options is the cry of most post-houses. Fortunately, there is now ProRes, so like DNxHD, there is a good format for conforming. This should reduce a lot of problems.

Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro