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Audio Mixing is Actually Brilliant
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Roles could most definitely serve as a virtual audio bus, without tracks.”
Of course with say 4 inserts on each bus.
Do the Waves plugs show up in FCPX ok? I really need the L2 or L3 ultramaximizer limiter to keep in broadcast specs…and DINR for noise reduction and pitch’n’time for quality time stretching…
Then it’d be BYE BYE PROTOOLS!
PLEASE NOTE APPLE!
Jon 🙂
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[David Lawrence] “Yes, but if you “Break Apart”, doesn’t that remove any transitions? What if you use crossfades between clip elements?”
This is why I wanted you to weigh in David, I’m doing this in real time so I can check it as I go.
No, any fade you make to the clip (using the cross fade handles) stay with the clips inside the CC that is inside the Secondary if you “Break Apart” the clip elements.
I think more importantly, the way I’m doing it, there’s absolutely no issue if you break apart the clip to edit it in reference with the Primary or other audio tracks/Secondaries above and below. Those clips remain hilighted even as you adjust the volume level of a single clip, so you don’t even have to reselect, just hit Option/G after adjusting a level and it closes to a CC again .
And you continue to see all waveform info in the Secondaries – just not the lines that break the CC into separate clips within it.
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[jon smitherton] “EQ + Compression on each track
then tracks are bussed to stems (VO, Dialogue, Music, Effects)
then compression are applied to the stems
then over the Master Bus – Compression and a Limiter to keep in broadcast specs.
Then I start keyframing levels either on the clip or bus.As you can see there are varying degrees of Compression – usually light on each one – 2 to 1 to 4 to 1 compression ratios to keep the mix under control.
With your technique the problem for me is that because of my degrees of compression – is going backward into stems or tracks. For Instance, I need to hear the master bus output when I adjust the one of stems. With compounding it doesn’t allow this.”
Jon, I’m doing exactly what you describe in PT right in the X timeline.
Even easier than you can do it in PT or DP or Logic while mixing to picture.
Use “Break Apart Clip Items” not “Open in Timeline” and see how nice it works. -
[Jim Giberti] “No, any fade you make to the clip (using the cross fade handles) stay with the clips inside the CC that is inside the Secondary if you “Break Apart” the clip elements.”
True if you use handles or keyframes, I’m talking about something different – using dissolve transitions between clips. I do this with audio for various reasons pretty regularly. You can get the same effect by using handles/keyframes and stacking clips but I find it’s often faster and more direct to just drop a crossfade between clips. In FCP7 it’s a single-click operation.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Jim Giberti] “Use “Break Apart Clip Items” not “Open in Timeline” and see how nice it works.”
So if you made a compound clip of say the dialogue stem, added a compressor…then ‘broke apart’ the compound clip then added another compressor to a single clip…you would hear both compressors when broken apart?
If so, this is great. Maybe a tutorial is in order!
Cheers,
Jon -
[David Lawrence] “In FCP7 it’s a single-click operation.”
Well, David, actually two clicks (Command T) without keyboard re-mapping – but the point is well taken since that kind of thing certainly starts to feel like a single action after the first few hundred times you use it.
But isn’t the larger view that Jim is editing like he edited as an AUDIO editor – where audio fades via keyframe manipulation is the norm. And you’re editing like a video editor where transitions via drag and drop presets are the norm?
The issue I have with “drag and drop” is that as a preset, you have to accept whatever you’ve set up as the preset behavior, where Jim’s keyframe fades are always purpose built to the nature of the track being modified.
If we’re going to ask every new NLE implementation, not “can it do the job efficiently” but “can it always do the job in the way I’ve become accustomed to doing it” then this discussion is going to go on for a LONG time and be very frustrating.
Jim, I personally LOVE your “1-frame timing gap clip” concept. It’s something that I never considered and I can see it as a kinda “tent peg” technique that gives me back some of the “fixed track” behavior in the world of the magnetic timeline.
I’m going to try it in my next project. Thanks for posting the idea.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Chris Harlan] “That sounds very cool. I get the gist of what you are doing, but not quite the particulars. Maybe when I get a breath, I need to try to duplicate, but I would love to see some screen shots if you are client-authorized to do so.
“Hey Chris, the client has even seen a rough yet so I can’t put anything up, but I could rough out a dummy easily enough. Conceptually once I broke away from my existing “faders and busses” paradigm that I knew I would have to (sort of dreaded) it became pretty obvious how they designed this to work.
I already have a list of, please do this fast” things. The biggest so far is a silly bug/oversight that when you are working in real time with, say, a parametric EQ and adjust Q and frequency for instance. In any system I use I select the range I need to hear as I sculpt it and hit (in X) the “/” bar and Command/L to loop the selection until I get it.
In X, as soon as you make an adjustment to the FX it goes out of Loop mode and you have to keep bringing it back. I’ll work around it with a marker for now, but that’s one they’ve got to patch quickly so that this is as fast as what it should be.
Anyway, ask away.
I’m getting more comfortable with the concept by the hour. -
[Bill Davis] “Well, David, actually two clicks (Command T) without keyboard re-mapping – but the point is well taken since that kind of thing certainly starts to feel like a single action after the first few hundred times you use it.”
You can right-click and apply a crossfade transition between clips in a single action. If you set the default length to your most common preference, then most of the time the job can be done in one click. Also, a single click on the crossfade lets you set the crossfade to the transition start, center, or end. Very fast and handy. Good luck doing that right now in FCPX. Definitely a feature request.
[Bill Davis] “But isn’t the larger view that Jim is editing like he edited as an AUDIO editor – where audio fades via keyframe manipulation is the norm. And you’re editing like a video editor where transitions via drag and drop presets are the norm?”
I don’t think so. I started a couple long threads on audio-centric and spatial workflows a few weeks ago. If anything, I think I edit video like an audio editor.
I use whatever tools are available. If I can drop in a crossfade and it works, cool. If I want to work in layers, I’ll use volume keyframes. Whatever tool does the particular job fastest is what I pick.
_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[jon smitherton] “So if you made a compound clip of say the dialogue stem, added a compressor…then ‘broke apart’ the compound clip then added another compressor to a single clip…you would hear both compressors when broken apart?”
No Jon, if you break it apart or Open it it will lose the “master buss” relationship.
The difference being, if you break it apart it will be gone for good because you need to recreate the CC.
If you Open in Timeline then you won’t hear it in context as you add the other compressor but it will be there when you step back in time.I’m still working this out, but I don’t see that as a problem yet in my workflow style.
In my “track” scenario only similar audio clips are in any track. I’ve already “normalized” any audio differences between clips that make up that audio take. I would never add an effect to one that I wouldn’t wan’t across the range and that’s where they CC/buss thing works so well.Any other tracks, say a single SFX would exist in a Secondary and have only the EQ, level and FX that I want for that moment in time. The next SFX down the line stays in the SFX Secondary but gets treated similarly. This group isn’t a CC in a Secondary but a series of clips edited (D) into it but horizontally grouped as a track.
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[David Lawrence] “True if you use handles or keyframes, I’m talking about something different – using dissolve transitions between clips. I do this with audio for various reasons pretty regularly. You can get the same effect by using handles/keyframes and stacking clips but I find it’s often faster and more direct to just drop a crossfade between clips. In FCP7 it’s a single-click operation.
“I use that technique at times too David and yes the fades stay with the CC if you Break Apart or Open in Timeline
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