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Audio Mixing is Actually Brilliant
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In Protools this is my config:
EQ + Compression on each track
then tracks are bussed to stems (VO, Dialogue, Music, Effects)
then compression are applied to the stems
then over the Master Bus – Compression and a Limiter to keep in broadcast specs.
Then I start keyframing levels either on the clip or bus.As you can see there are varying degrees of Compression – usually light on each one – 2 to 1 to 4 to 1 compression ratios to keep the mix under control.
With your technique the problem for me is that because of my degrees of compression – is going backward into stems or tracks. For Instance, I need to hear the master bus output when I adjust the one of stems. With compounding it doesn’t allow this.
However (!) if there was a roles mixer where I could put EQ + Compression on each role or stem and the same over the master bus it would be problem solved!
Jon
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[jon smitherton] “However (!) if there was a roles mixer where I could put EQ + Compression on each role or stem and the same over the master bus it would be problem solved!”
+1,000
Roles could most definitely serve as a virtual audio bus, without tracks.
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[David Lawrence] “Yes, very interesting Jim. I’d also love to see a screen grab of your setup. I’m skeptical of Compound Clips because I don’t like how they hide information, so I’m curious to see how you’re using them.”
Hey David, I was hoping to hear from some of the big brains in the debate to test my thinking. It’s all new and I’m in the thick of it now.
This particular project isn’t a national spot, but it’s for a national manufacturer for their dealers to air as well as a short promo film for their website. It’s the only thing I’ve worked with regarding this and while I can’t show it, I think I can explain it easily enough and would love to answer any questions.
After reading a lot of your thoughts and examples I was thinking of you when I “disabled” the magnetic timeline as part of my approach to the first mix.
I can give you the short hand on that which I’m sure you’ll get:
After I got a rough cut together (the clips were shot with on camera sound to synch the external audio )
I had all the actors and attached audio in the Primary.Before I added the audio to be synched, music tracks etc. I inserted a one frame gap at the head of the Primary. Then I took a random slice of audio and Qed it to connect it to that 1st frame then I did the same at the end of the project.
Of course these are now aligned horizontally directly under the Primary. I selected both and Option/G to make a CC/ “track” that ran the length of the project and I named the CC “Music Bed”. Option drag this to create as many tracks as you want, all fixed to the frame at the top of the Primary.
With a simple Command/G these all become Secondaries, but really they are now tracks that you can D/Overwrite any content into and keep locked.
Then I added the voice clips that needed to be synched to the Primary, Shift dragged the first to be directly under the Primary and all the “locked tracks slide down one and now I had an open lane to fill in the clips I wanted “magnetized”.
So now go about your edit, auditioning and moving clips, leveling audio individually (as I’d always in FCP or DP) etc.
Once you’ve got your edit and you want to do your audio mix and master, quickly select the “Tara” clips in the Timeline or Index and Option/G and now that CC is a buss for Tara ready for one step EQ, leveling etc. Step and repeat for each individual group you want to buss and as you Option/G , they are automatically bussed with master fader, pan and any effects – the beauty of the inspector and filters being right there, always active.
And everything appears neatly and in hierarchy under the Primary. If you need to tweak, Open in TImeline, tweak, step back in the Timeline and everything is as you left it but with the tweak.
When you’re ready to master, grab all the CCs and Secondaries, Option/G and name it Master Out and you’ve got a master buss with volume pan and all the finishing tools right there. Everything is neatly in a single master audio track but can be opened and closed in real time.
Now go back and delete the one frame gap inserted before the edit, select the Master Out audio and hit “,” and everything is lined up from the top.
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The one thing I wanted to mention too David, having the CCs laid out as traditional horizontal tracks removes the “hidden” aspect of media. In vertical stacks of compositing, collapsing segments into CCs is nice and easily opened and closed. Together it’s the best of both worlds sort of locked and magnetic, visible and uncluttered depending on the edit and what you’re focused on at the time.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Basically, it would be nice to be able to edit what’s in the compound clip in greater context of the over arching timeline rather than having to “step in” and open the compound in it’s own timeline. You lose the relationship to your timeline (the elements outside the compound clip) a little bit the way it is currently setup.”
Not if you “Break Apart” rather than “Open in Timeline” Jeremy. The first moves you into it’s own unreferenced timeline (to the Primary) and you need to step back. Break Apart shows the individual elements in context and a quick Option/G closes them up. So you can tweak any edit, either way.
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There is no real nesting in Avid like FCP does – you collapse tracks which applies a submaster effect. You can step into the submaster to see all the collapsed tracks, or you can go into effect mode or segment mode (both are a keystroke) and double click the submaster effect. This open the “nest” in your timeline so you can see everything inside of it in relation to your entire timeline, and you can make adjustments inside the submaster and see how they affect everything outside of it to.
So you have a choice – step in and lose context or expand and maintain context. Note this is with video only – there is no collapsing audio. You do a mixdown for that, which creates new media that has no relationship to the original audio tracks.
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Michael Hancock
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[Jim Giberti] “Not if you “Break Apart” rather than “Open in Timeline” Jeremy. The first moves you into it’s own unreferenced timeline (to the Primary) and you need to step back. Break Apart shows the individual elements in context and a quick Option/G closes them up. So you can tweak any edit, either way.”
Yes, but if you “Break Apart”, doesn’t that remove any transitions? What if you use crossfades between clip elements?
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Jim Giberti] “Not if you “Break Apart” rather than “Open in Timeline” Jeremy. The first moves you into it’s own unreferenced timeline (to the Primary) and you need to step back. Break Apart shows the individual elements in context and a quick Option/G closes them up. So you can tweak any edit, either way.”
I understand, but without sync markers, this process can be a bit tenuous if you accidentally slip an audio track out of line. I prefer “Detach” as it keeps any audio adjustments that are already made. A Reattach audio would fix this, too.
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[Jim Giberti] “Before I added the audio to be synched, music tracks etc. I inserted a one frame gap at the head of the Primary. Then I took a random slice of audio and Qed it to connect it to that 1st frame then I did the same at the end of the project.”
Jim, if I understand correctly, it sounds like you’re using the 1 frame gap at the head of the show as the connection/sync point, then connecting compounds to that?
That makes sense, although wouldn’t using secondarys give you a bit more flexibility as far as access without stepping in? I don’t know what the implications would be for audio FX.
Not sure what you mean about attaching to the end of the piece since I’d think this would constantly be slipping sync as you edit. But maybe you’re already locked at this point?
A picture sure would make it easier get what you’re doing, but if you have client restrictions, I totally understand.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Andy Field] “Sorry – I’ve ready your post a few times – but am not understanding how you are “mixing” on the fly – I’m assuming you are rubber banding and then grouping tracks as sub-mixes — “
Andy, let me start by how I’d handle the mix after exporting it to Digital Performer in the audio suite. First I’d open each individual voice clip that comprised an actor’s track and level each of those visually by dragging the level line of each (same as FCP) to get a a balanced track to begin with.
After doing this with any tracks with multiple levels, I’d switch into my mixer, Zero everything out and start assigning my choice EQ and FX plugs to each tracks sends and begin and automated mix (depending on the complexity). I’ll usually bounce in and out of Mixer to Sequence (fcp timelineish) to adjust specific audio with the fine control of keying.
Using the R (Range Selector) is the way to make immediate 4 point keyframe audio changes to the tracks. I don’t think rubber band but key framing from a continuity standpoint.
If you followed me, I’ve already created Tracks/CCs that I drop the clips I want fixed in time into.
They’re already grouped and have audio controls attached.In other words, Compound Clips are busses, and they’re easier busses than in any traditional DAW I work with.
[Andy Field] “You also say you didn’t see the value of the mixer in FCP 7 – when in fact we use it every hour every day as a real time “lets listen – did we get this balance right?…let me bring the music up and down for dramatic impact at this point” mixes. In real time.
I can’t imagine you’ve found a way to do that in FCP X – or have you?
“Sure I have .
First I say the mixer in 7 is pretty useless because you can’t apply master FX to the tracks in 7, they’re not like tracks in a DAW. In X, bussing with CCs is actually better than a DAW for this.If you want to “bring the music up and down for dramatic impact at this point” mixes. In real time. “, you don’t need to open a mixer – just select the Secondary labeled “Music Bed” and right there in the Inspector there’s a master volume and pan control for that buss.
Done.
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