Are Sony Vegas skills marketable?

[Rob Cioffi]

This has been a great discussion and has given me a lot to think about. There may be work out there for a full-time Vegas editor but I’m not going to count on it. Sony Vegas has taught me a lot about editing through dozens of projects and I’m confident I could cut a feature-length film with it (Here’s one of my greatest learning experiences – 100% cut, vfx, sfx, and sound mixed with SVP – https://vimeo.com/93269411)

I’m currently working on 3 projects (One web-based series, one documentary series, and a sitcom) using SVP. But I’ve decided to move over to Premiere for any new projects. I suspect it will slow down my workflow for a while. It’s pain well worth going through.

I started editing with Movie Maker way back when then switched over to Pinnacle to edit a 3 DVD video of a family cruise. When I bought an AVCHD camera I was forced to move out of my Pinnacle comfort zone and use SVP as my main editor.

The move to Premiere reminds me of my move from Pinnacle to SVP. Premiere seems to me to be a more advanced editor (especially when combined with After Effects). I’ve got thousands invested in SVP versions and plugins but most of what I use are available for Premiere and what I may lose will probably be made up for multiple times over by Adobe resources.

The biggest decision factor is that SVP 13 is probably the last major release of Vegas. Sony seems to be focused on Catalyst, which is great, but it will probably take years for it to catch up to the major NLEs.

The nail in the SVP coffin was hearing today that the Coen Brothers cut “Hail, Ceasar!” on Premiere.

I’ll probably use SVP for quick hit and runs for a long while. It’s a great tool. It just feels like it’s time to broaden my skills.

[John Rofrano]

[Rob Cioffi] “The move to Premiere reminds me of my move from Pinnacle to SVP.”

So you are OK with the subscription model and the fact that you pay annually for new releases whether you need the new features or not, and when you stop paying the software stops working and you can no longer open your projects? So if you were coming the other way from Premiere to Vegas you could not, for example, go back 6 months later and make adjustments to a Premiere project unless you paid Adobe more money for the privilege of doing so. And you have no problem with that? (‘cuz I can agree to being held hostage like that regardless of how good the software is.)

[Rob Cioffi] “The biggest decision factor is that SVP 13 is probably the last major release of Vegas.”

So if Sony came out with Vegas Pro 14 this year you would stay? (just asking’ ‘cuz NAB is just around the corner and that’s when new releases usually happen)

[Rob Cioffi] “The nail in the SVP coffin was hearing today that the Coen Brothers cut “Hail, Ceasar!” on Premiere.”

Well… the Hollywood feature film Focus was edited on Final Cut Pro X, and the A&E documentary O.J. Speaks: The Hidden tapes was cut on Final Cut Pro X, and the Emmy Award winning Harlem Globetrotters documentary was cut on Final Cut Pro X and according to this video (at 4:50), Final Cut Pro X is 5x Faster than Premiere Pro on the same hardware. So why not Final Cut Pro X? …at least you “own” if forever! 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Rob Cioffi]

John,

Very good points. Allow me to address them.

[John Rofrano] “So you are OK with the subscription model and the fact that you pay annually for new releases whether you need the new features or not, and when you stop paying the software stops working and you can no longer open your projects? So if you were coming the other way from Premiere to Vegas you could not, for example, go back 6 months later and make adjustments to a Premiere project unless you paid Adobe more money for the privilege of doing so. And you have no problem with that? (‘cuz I can agree to being held hostage like that regardless of how good the software is.)”

Yes, the subscription model is hard to swallow. I guess the upside is if I was in need of Premiere for a legacy project in the future I have the option of only having to pay a month at a time for the privilege. Right now I subscribe for to CC for my web business so Premiere and AE are just sitting there in my toolbox whether I use them or not.

[John Rofrano] “So if Sony came out with Vegas Pro 14 this year you would stay? (just asking’ ‘cuz NAB is just around the corner and that’s when new releases usually happen)”

I suspect if anybody knows whether SVP 14 was going to drop this year (or even still in new feature development for a new version) it would be you, John ;). The answer is yes, I’d stay with Vegas as my primary tool if Sony Creative was actively developing it as a competitive NLE.

[John Rofrano] “Well… the Hollywood feature film Focus was edited on Final Cut Pro X, and the A&E documentary O.J. Speaks: The Hidden tapes was cut on Final Cut Pro X, and the Emmy Award winning Harlem Globetrotters documentary was cut on Final Cut Pro X and according to this video (at 4:50), Final Cut Pro X is 5x Faster than Premiere Pro on the same hardware. So why not Final Cut Pro X? …at least you “own” if forever! 😉
“

I’m an old IT guy with a Windows bias. I sold a top of the line iMac last year because the only thing I used it for was for playing around with FCPX and as a prop for clients. My guess is I could build a super-powered Wintel box that had Premiere matching FCPX performance for less than the cost of the Apple hardware. But that subscription model does suck.

I’m going to spend a few months working with Premiere – if only to broaden my skill set. I’d love to see SVP 14 announced at NAB. I’d have piece of mind back.

Thanks again John for taking the time out to respond.

[Russ Froze]

“So you are OK with the subscription model “

I was going to leave that alone. If someone wishes to be taken hostage I wont stop them.

[Rob Cioffi] “whether SVP 14 was going to drop this year (or even still in new feature development for a new version)”

I don’t get it VP 13 is capable of cutting most pro codecs and 3D stereo. How many more features are needed at this time. As to the Adobe System of interchanging projects, I have found it less than truthful about project handoffs between AE and Premier.

Myself I use Vegas to cut and Fusion as a compositor with a custom script to send the Vegas timeline to Fusion much the same as Avid and Lightworks can export the timeline to work on in Fusion.

Then there are the free NLE such as Lightworks and Resolve 12 is a serious contender as a powerful NLE. Both support ofx plugins and can be installed on Win, Mac or Linux.

Personally I refuse to use any ransomware company for I don’t wish to encourage the business model.
That’s my two cents worth.
Russ Froze

[John Rofrano]

[Russ Froze] “I don’t wish to encourage the business model.”

That’s the key issue here. The subscription model is a very bad precedent. Now plug-in vendors like GenArts are going subscription based as well. So now you have to pay Adobe and GenArts every month! Imagine if you had to pay for every plug-in every month!!! Pretty soon, you wouldn’t be able to afford to run your own computer. It’s not that far fetched. I have software that is 8 years old that I use only a few times a year. Imagine if I had to pay for it over, and over, and over, again for the past 8 years? That’s not sustainable. I’m looking to reduce my monthly expenses not increase them.

I will not support the subscription model. It’s a bad deal for customers, and I for one, am voting with my wallet!

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Rob Cioffi]

[John Rofrano] “I will not support the subscription model. It’s a bad deal for customers, and I for one, am voting with my wallet!”

You’d think the folks over at Sony might try to figure out a way to exploit the subscription model outrage by continuing to crank out new versions of Vegas. You’d think.

[Russ Froze]

[John Rofrano] “I will not support the subscription model”

To wit, I’d like to thank you and Douglas Spotted Eagle for not continually billing me for Ultimat S.

You are absolutely correct Mr. Rofrano the subscription model is unsustainable. Sure it’s 25 here 10 there 50 more over there and before you know it, the will be 5 or 6 hundred a month just to keep one edit bay running. Yes remember these licences are but for one installation so if there is a backup machine then double the cost.

Another thing that I don’t agree with is the fact that these subscription licences need to be online. Certainly these Ransomware providers are serious about their online security system but are they concerned about your security? Now this is probably way out there, however not inconceivable. Let’s hypothesise. As the master server does a handshake to check license, What is to impede some over achieving coder to send a little something extra to the licencing server. You can take it from there, just use your imagination. But mostly, I consider it an invasion of privacy.
Russ Froze

[John Rofrano]

[Russ Froze] “To wit, I’d like to thank you and Douglas Spotted Eagle for not continually billing me for Ultimat S. “

Hey, if you guys want to send me a check every month wouldn’t that be nice! lol

[Russ Froze] “Another thing that I don’t agree with is the fact that these subscription licences need to be online.”

That is another thing that I (and we at VASST) never believed in and that’s “Activation”. What an insult to your customers to treat them like criminals while the criminals are using pirated copies that don’t have activation! It stops no one but your honest customers from using the software they paid for. it’s insane!!!

I have 4 Macs: A 2008 Mac Pro, a 2010 Mac Pro, and Mac Mini, and a MacBook Pro. All of the software that I purchase from Apple I buy once and have installed on all 4 of my Macs (FCP X, Motion, Compressor, Logic Pro X, etc). Not so with other greedy vendors. Adobe CS6 can only be on 2 of them at one time! Some plug-ins only allow me to put them on 1 of them!!! Needless to say they fooled me once, but I will never buy software a second time from a vendor who doesn’t trust me to use it on the computers that I own. When configuring a new OS install, I dread having to relicense all of my 3rd party plug-ins and applications, but with Apple, I only have to put in my Apple ID and everything re-installs itself without any problems including 3rd party software that I purchased from the Apple Store (e.g., Pixelmator, Affinity Design, Affinity Photo, etc.). Every vendor should trust their customers because the people who steal their software, never were customers to begin with!

This is why VASST uses a simply license key that allows you to install our plug-ins on however many computers that you own. We don’t lock a license to a particular computer, we don’t “activate” back to a license server in the sky that requires you to be on-line. All of that is just a hassle for customers who purchased your software legally. Yea, I know there are pirated copies of our software out there but you know what… people who would use a pirated copy were never going to buy your software to begin with so it’s really not a lost sale. Legitimate customers pay for their software and enjoy the support that it brings.

(hang on while I get down off of this soap box… i think I’m getting a nose bleed from the altitude… there… that’s better) 😀

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Aaron Star]

What Hollywood does is not representational of the 98% of the other video editing done every year. If you are worried about marketability of your skills, then there is this fact:

“Every 2015 Oscar nominee for Best Picture and Best Film Editing edited using Media Composer.

99% of all network broadcast prime time television* in North America is produced on Media Composer.” https://apps.avid.com/mediacomposerfirst/