Apple and databases

[Franz Bieberkopf]

[David Lawrence] ” I just got nailed by the Pr project handling stupids.”

David,

I’ve been very hesitant to dive in on anything large (quite aside from the relinking issue). Any details worth sharing?

Franz.

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “You seem to be closer with the birdies though.”

It’s incredibly hard to get my one small birdie to speak, I barely have a birdie frankly – but the birdie is in a 50-100 seat place that just plumped for PPro.
the birdie says anywhere was a fundamental sway.

the birdie had been very strong on FCPX, investigating it thoroughly for nearly a year for corporate reasons – but then, after examination, that pressure went away.

My misgivings are whether or not anywhere represents a full intellectual re-fit of PPro – or a price proposition for editing SMEs.

again – I basically can’t believe adobe could realistically leave the current basic architecture in place outside of anywhere.

Given the state of PPro project management, as it creeps towards primetime – Adobe have to swop that out before anyone notices how messed up it is.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Walter Soyka]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “Nonetheless, all interesting, not least since I haven’t come across any info on how Avid or PPro projects are structured …”

I popped the hood on a few Premiere Pro project files to do a little bit of in-house development to work around what David L. so aptly calls “the project handling stupids.”

Premiere Pro projects are essentially a description of the current state of every object in the project (assets, sequences, tracks, clips, etc.), all wrapped in XML.

It’s pretty human-readable, and if you’re the adventurous sort, manually and programmatically modifiable. (Danger, Will Robinson!)

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Marcus Moore]

If that’s what you’re looking for, then I’d almost recommend you compound clip the audio, then within the compound clip all the audio elements would be attached to a primary slug.

I believe a lot of this would be covered with a “connect to time” override. This would also be useful for broadcast standard commercial slugs.

[Marcus Moore]

I shall try.

We have Easter up here in Canada this weekend, so I expect to have some time to pound out the second half of my ideas. The challenge is making the time to mock up some screen grabs. A lot of this is very difficult to explain just with words.

But to tease it a bit, to my mind, Apple has already solved their timeline problem in how they structure Events…

[Aindreas Gallagher]

walter – given it kind of visibly resembles a fair bit of AE project structure, so from what you’ve dug into – is it stupid to think PPro is sharing some of the same project management architecture as AE?

import project into project – pretty bad re-linking, bar on multiple projects and that?

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[Aindreas Gallagher]

[Marcus Moore] “I’d almost recommend you compound clip the audio, then within the compound clip all the audio elements would be attached to a primary slug.”

please.

mate – nesting is not every answer to fundamental timeline flaws. not every day of the week at any rate. seriously- the amount of times CC comes up in X.
Its near placebo.

https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics

[David Lawrence]

[Marcus Moore] “If that’s what you’re looking for, then I’d almost recommend you compound clip the audio, then within the compound clip all the audio elements would be attached to a primary slug.”

Sure, but as you know, this prevents you from being able to do any mixing in context of the overall program. Stepping in and out of CCs is a bag of hurt.

[Marcus Moore] “I believe a lot of this would be covered with a “connect to time” override. This would also be useful for broadcast standard commercial slugs.”

Yes, something like that would be great. I just don’t see a clean way to do it without making the window the time frame-of-reference.

[Marcus Moore] “But to tease it a bit, to my mind, Apple has already solved their timeline problem in how they structure Events…”

I very much look forward to your post.

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
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[Dennis Radeke]

Next version ruminations are half the fun of NAB, aren’t they?

[Walter Soyka]

[Aindreas Gallagher] “walter – given it kind of visibly resembles a fair bit of AE project structure, so from what you’ve dug into – is it stupid to think PPro is sharing some of the same project management architecture as AE? import project into project – pretty bad re-linking, bar on multiple projects and that?”

My guess? I don’t think they share a project management implementation.

AEP files are binary; even Ae’s XML exports are nearly entirely binary blobs wrapped in XML tags. (Sidebar: this makes them totally useless for automation — good thing Ae has scripting, which is a much safer way of automating project changes than actually futzing with the project file itself as I have been doing!)

In my experience, AEPs are quite a bit less fragile from a re-linking standpoint than .prprojs, and goodness knows that an Ae-style Consolidate footage command [link] would go a long, long way in Premiere Pro.

I think the visible operational similarities are intentional design choices meant to unify the feel of the applications, and are not indicative of an actual common architecture.

That said, I do think that from a conceptual standpoint, they probably approach project management similarly, so if that’s what you mean by “project management architecture” then I am inclined to agree.

I’ll go a step further and suggest that FCP7 is in the same family. I think that Premiere Pro is two big tweaks away from an FCP7 level of project management: better understanding of “master clips” (thereby avoiding duplication) and improved re-linking. Of course, whether an FCP7-level of project management is a good goal or not is an open question.

But all this is only speculation. As always, I could be absolutely wrong.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events