Am I using the graph editor correcltly with this example?

[Roei Tzoref]

try to use the value graph and you will have much precise control. you will need to separate the dimensions (right click on the position). here’s a good tutorial about it:
https://vimeo.com/68022971

Roei Tzoref
2D/VFX Generalist & Instructor
♫ AeBlues Tutorials ♫
http://www.tzoref.com

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[Cassius Marques]

Your problem is that you initial and end speed are both zero. You’re accelerating, deaccelerating, accelerating and deaccelerating again. 4x instead of 2x.

You have to increase your start and end speed, and give those keyframes more influence,

Cassius Marques
http://www.zapfilmes.com

[Angie Taylor]

You are correct to use the Speed graph, it is designed for adjusting the speed. You probably want something that looks more like this;

https://images.creativecow.net/u/194039/screenshot2018-06-1507.35.01.png

cheers,

Angie

Angie Taylor animation & illustration for television, film, web and devices

https://www.angietaylor.co.uk
Twitter: theangietaylor
Linkedin: theangietaylor
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Angie-Taylor/118378194869002

[Steve Bentley]

I’m with Roel., I much prefer the Value Graph. You end up with a shape as pictured below.
As the red (X) curve falls its moves more and more to the left (smaller x values are left) and the as the curve flattens to horizontal the layer’s movement slows until the curve is flat and the layer stops moving (in other words it’s values stop changing). Then as the curve start to fall again (therefore moving in the same direction) it moves farther and farther left.

Its very hard to visualize an “ease” in a speed graph, especially when that speed changes after the keyframe – you end up with lots of infinite peaks and valleys in the curve. Its also hard to visualize acceleration – the key to any good animation.

There are so few places to use “speed” as an attribute in AE, that I find it makes more sense to use position values, so why not graph those values?
The Speed graph in AE is actually an anomaly in the industry. Pretty much all of the 3D packages (where this graphing thing began) use a value, or “F” curve graph (F because the curve is a Function of position – the value – over time. and isn’t position/ time just “speed” in the end?)
I also see in the forums so many people getting into trouble when they are trying to change the speed of something, especially with expressions. AE has no memory of what was happening on the frame before the one it’s on, so you can’t increase the speed of something if you can’t find out how fast it was going before.

[Angie Taylor]

This thread has inspired me to create a new course on the graph editor. I really don’t get why so many people have difficulty with the speed graph. To me it is intuitive for adjusting speed. Obviously you can use the Value graph if you find that easier but to me that’s like using keyframe view instead of the graph editor because you find that easier. OK, it’s a learning curve (excuse the pun!) but it’s worth the time investment IMHO.

In my training courses I introduce students to the speed graph in the fundamentals course so that they are familiar with it from the start. they learn it at the same time as they learn how to keyframe in the timeline. Nearly all of them get it and use it regularly to control speed. All of them can create convincing bounces, springs etc easily by hand with just two keyframes using the speed graph. I think these are almost impossible to do using the Value graph.

Just MHO but I feel passionately about the speed graph – I love it! 🙂

cheers,

Angie

Angie Taylor animation & illustration for television, film, web and devices

https://www.angietaylor.co.uk
Twitter: theangietaylor
Linkedin: theangietaylor
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Angie-Taylor/118378194869002

[Angie Taylor]

Hi Steve,

You said “AE has no memory of what was happening on the frame before the one it’s on, so you can’t increase the speed of something if you can’t find out how fast it was going before.”

But you can see all of this in the Speed graph?!?!?!

Each keyframe has an outgoing speed and velocity. These are the two points that you see on each keyframe in the speed graph. So, for example, when a ball bounces, it comes in at 100% speed, then damping force absorbs some of the energy, so it leaves at say, 80% of the speed it came into the keyframe at. You can adjust this in the speed graph. You CANNOT adjust this in the value graph.

Similarly, you can’t adjust the influence in the Value Graph without adding more keyframes. For example. Say you have a map of Canada. You are animating a car driving from Montreal to Ottowa. The journey has to take 3 seconds. But you can only use two keyframes. There are several timings within this you could use; you could drive quickly for the first half of the journey and then slowly for the second half, or you could start off slowly, get faster in the middle of the journey, then slow down again at the end, or you could go really slowly, then realise you’re late so drive the remainder of the way at break-neck speed! ???? All of this can be done with just two keyframes in the Speed graph EASILY. I’d be really interested to see how you could accomplish this so easily in the Value Graph. Obviously it can be done but I’m not convinced it could be done as easily as it can be done in the Speed graph.

Some of the reasons why it is essential IMHO.

cheers,

Angie Taylor | Creative Cabin Ltd
https://www.creativecabin.co.uk
Twitter: theangietaylor
Linkedin: theangietaylor
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Angie-Taylor/118378194869002

[Roei Tzoref]

The way I see it is that the speed graph is a simplified graph for simple tasks. it can only affect speed and this is why it’s limited. the value graph on the other hand can affect both speed and value means it’s the more robust of the two.
creating bounces or overshoots with the speed graph is highly unintuitive IMO. you would need to use negative speed and that graph will look rather crazy. with the value graph it would be very easy to understand and control.

here as a visual examples of 2 very common movement in the world of motion graphics physics and how they compare in value graph vs speed graph:
inertia (or “overshoot”)

bounce:

It’s very easy to see how elegant once looks over the other.

as for your question Angie to make different speed between two keyframes using the value graph it’s very easy to just stretch the bezier handles. the more horizontal the graph, the slower the speed/effect and vice versa. you do have to separate the dimensions though. here’s the movement on the x axis:

same movement on the speed graph:

of course if you are curious to how things look in each graph you can just change the graph type to see or use the reference graph.

Roei Tzoref
2D/VFX Generalist & Instructor
♫ AeBlues Tutorials ♫
http://www.tzoref.com

[Angie Taylor]

“The way I see it is that the speed graph is a simplified graph for simple tasks. it can only affect speed and this is why it’s limited. ”

I’m afraid I totally disagree. It is far from simplified, it gives me a much more detailed control of timing. Am I really the only person who finds it intuitive and powerful?

“the value graph on the other hand can affect both speed and value means it’s the more robust of the two.”

Again, sorry but I disagree again. This is EXACTLY why we need a separate speed graph. It’s a nightmare trying to control value and timing simultaneously. MUCH easier in the Speed graph.

“creating bounces or overshoots with the speed graph is highly unintuitive IMO. you would need to use negative speed and that graph will look rather crazy.”

I don’t understand why you think it looks crazy. I guess you are referring to the speed spikes that naturally occur at times when the influence handles are dragged to the max? I find these perfectly understandable too. Time is flexible, it can be bent but it can’t be stretched (between two fixed points). Therefore, if you adjust the speed on one side it will have to compensate on the other, creating a bunching up that causes these spikes. But I know immediately what they represent.

“with the value graph it would be very easy to understand and control.”

It’s definitely easier for most people to understand, I’ll give you that. But that doesn’t make it better. I think most people say they don’t like it because it’s a bit more challenging to learn. The same way people say they don’t like drawing with paths or working in channels in Photoshop.

I’d like to encourage all Ae users to get to grips with the speed graph – you won’t regret it 🙂

cheers,

Angie Taylor | Creative Cabin Ltd | Linkedin Instructor | Adobe Community Professional

https://www.creativecabin.co.uk
https://www.lynda.com/Angie-Taylor/2131450-1.html
Twitter: theangietaylor
Linkedin: theangietaylor
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Angie-Taylor/118378194869002

[Steve Davies]

Thanks for the discussion into this, it is really helpful.

Digital Designer
stevedavies.io

[Angie Taylor]

oops