AJA HD10C2 to a JVC dvi monitor – what will I loose?

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Bryan,

It would be preferable to have an all-digital, full resolution workflow for maximum quality output to your monitor. You don’t have to break the bank to achieve this. Here’s a workflow which might work for you in SD, HD and 2K.

Your DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card already supports SD, HD and 2K via SDI so you just need to find a suitable monitoring solution for these formats.

The monitor you are considering is not a full resolution HD monitor so you won’t see the full detail of your HD video and you certainly won’t be able to monitor 2K video.

The converter you are considering converts SD/HD-SDI to analog which means the resulting output will include analog noise and be softer than an all-digital workflow. We also have an SDI to Analog Mini Converter at a much lower price but I still would suggest staying with an all-digital workflow if you can.

I would recommend you consider the following workflow. Connect the DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card (that’s the current shipping version of the DeckLink HD Extreme card) to a HDLink Pro. This is an SDI to DVI/HDMI converter which also features 6 channels of analog audio output and includes a power supply. Connect the HDLink Pro to a 30″ DVI display for full resolution, pixel-for-pixel monitoring of SD, HD and 2K video. Current 30″ DVI monitors from companies including Apple, Hewlett Packard, Samsung and Dell have enough pixels to show full resolution 2K (2048 x 1556) video.

The HDLink Pro includes 3D LUT’s so you can fine tune your monitor even if there are no controls on the monitor itself. The HDLink Utility software can be installed on a Mac or Windows PC and then connects and controls the HDLink Pro via a USB connection.

Several companies make fancy LCD or plasma broadcast monitors which have a box of electronics attached to them and then offer a DVI connection. These are generally expensive monitors and may or may not offer full-resolution HD display. The box of electronics seems to inflate the cost of the monitor and can sometimes introduce technicalities when using HDLink Pro to produce an image on the display. It is safer and less expensive to buy a straight forward DVI-based computer display and simply attach it directly to HDLink Pro. We test and use all of the current 30″ displays from Apple, Hewlett Packard, Samsung and Dell and my personal favorites are the Apple and the Samsung displays.

I think if you compare the costs of the hardware you were considering, compared with the HDLink Pro and a 30″ DVI monitor, you will find that digital HD and 2K monitoring is now surprisingly affordable.

If you don’t need 2K monitoring, then consider obtaining a display with HDMI input. You can use the HDMI output of the DeckLink HD Extreme 2 card for full-resolution HD1920 x 1080 monitoring. This is uncompressed, digital monitoring so the quality is fantastic and, as always, it’s best to use a full-resolution 1920×1080 or 1920×1200 display.

I hope this helps!

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Bryan Fowler]

Luke,

Yes, that helps heaps!

After I made the initial post, I remembered the HDlink, and looked into it more. You confirmed what I thought, that it’s the way to go.

The other aspect I’m interested in is color correction. I know that LCDs are not the way to go for color correction, but it’s something I’m wanting to keep in mind.

Do you have any recommendations for a setup with color correction in mind, using the HD extreme 2, and HD Link? I was looking at the JVC monitors, but I know they are not 2K compatible. … Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again!

Bryan

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Bryan,

Plasma monitors seem to have better black levels than LCD’s and so are great for HD monitoring but I don’t think anyone makes a Plasma higher than HD resolution so you can’t use a Plasma display for full-resolution 2K monitoring. So if you’re working in 2K, then a DVI-based 30″ LCD is the technology available today for full resolution monitoring.

Another option is to use a full-resolution 1920×1080 Plasma display and connect it to the HDLink Pro via HDMI. This will be a great solution for SD and HD monitoring. If you want to monitor 2K, you will be able to play out the 2K material via your DeckLink HD Extreme and you will see a cropped 1920 x 1080 image of your 2K material on the Plasma display. This gives you the benefit of being able to see much of your 2K image and enjoy the deeper black levels provided by Plasma displays.

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Bob Zelin]

I have not read all of the posts on this thread.
I am responding only to say that this is the FIRST TIME I have ever heard of someone trying to setup a “budget way” to monitor 2K files.
Are you the first person in the US to do “low end” 2K jobs ?

No broadcast HD monitor that I am aware of from Sony, Panasonic or JVC will display a 2K image. I am unfamiliar with the eCinema or CineTal product line, but I would be surprised if they support 2K display.

A simple answer is an Apple 30″ Cinema display with the Blackmagic HDLink Pro for $795 retail.

At least I have learned from this post who is “ground zero” for bastardizing the hi end 2K market before it even really gets started – it is you. Low end budget 2K work!

And just for you, I just looked at the CineTal website, and they only do a max resolution of 1920×1200. And the eCinema DCM series (the expensive one) only does 1920×1080. So NO 2K monitoring for you on your broadcast monitors.

Cheap 2K….I ought to take you out to the back and give you a whoopin’, low end 2K – who ever heard of such a thing.

Bob Zelin

[Luke Maslen]

Hi Bob,

You’re on fire! Keep’m coming 🙂

Regards,

Luke Maslen
Blackmagic Design

[Tim Wilson]

Okay, this gave me the fever. I did some poking around and surprise, surprise, you CAN monitor 2K natively on your desktop. It’s from NEC, 21 in., DVD-D, and only $4000. This is genuinely, ridiculously low.

BTW, full aperture native 2K is 2048×1556, aka QXGA. There are number of them, but the NEC is fairly easy to find.

The challenge is that
Academy 2K is 1828 x 1332 at 1.37:1
Digital Cinema 2K is 2048 x 858 2.39:1 , and 1998 x 1080 at 1.85.1.

I’ve been able to find NO desktop monitors with ANY of these resolutions.

The biggest problem is that you’re going to have trouble managing color. Doing 1920 on your desktop is no problem, because it generally corresponds to the screens that most people see HD on. But most people are going to see 2K projected, and although there ARE home theater 2K projectors — even home theater FOUR K projectors from Sony’s CONSUMER division — they ain’t cheap.

Now, I’d be happy to be corrected on all of this, but that’s what I’ve found in the time I’m willing to allow myself for goofing off. For now, follow Luke’s advice or face Bob’s bat.

🙂

[Tim Kolb]

There are several workflows that ‘center cut’ digital “2K” (to paraphrase an old saying…”The great thing about the 2K standard is that there are so many of ’em.) and monitor on a 1920×1080 display from an HDSDI output.

The typical 30″ DL DVI display is WQXGA (2560×1600), which of course has enough pixels to show all the formats Tim W. describes…the color becomes the catch. There isn’t a 30″ WQXGA that has LED backlighting like the new HP DreamColor display (there aren’t many display cards that will even feed out 30 bit in the “enthusiast budget” category either I’ll bet…), so they aren’t really something to use for precise viewing without running something like Rising Sun Research’s (now part of Cine-tal), cineSpace LUT calibration tool.

I find that running a broadcast CRT as well as the large LCD seems to give a bit of the best of both worlds…

As far as “low end 2K”…I suspect there are a not insignificant number of aspiring independent film makers that will rent a 2k camera and wish to try their hand at post themselves to be able to finance the project themselves. This won’t be the last time the question is raised, and I think that the sheer numbers in this “market slice” will have manufacturers addressing what seems like their very unorthodox requests. In 5 years, their requests will seem quite normal I suspect.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

CPO, Digieffects

[Bryan Fowler]

Thanks everyone for the input.

I should rephrase my initial statement to: What’s the lowest I can get into 2k, and what will I have to sacrifice. =)

Everyone’s input has been helpful. I’m narrowing in on what I need to get, and trying to find the best deals on everything can be time consuming.

I’ve opted to go with the HDLink for monitoring a full image, and a Reference Monitor for grading that will take a downscaled image. That will have to do for now.

I’m estimating that 15-20% of my work will be indie level 2k, and the rest will max out at 1080i. Renting gear is always an option.

Now to find the deals.
Anyone upgrading, and selling their gear?

Thanks again.
Bryan

[Bob Zelin]

Gee Bryan – maybe you can get an AVID Meridian system, to cut 2K with. What do you mean “upgrading and selling their gear”. You want to work in 2K, right ? What kind of USED GEAR are you refering to ? A Beta 1800 VTR? A Digi beta camera, a Sony PVM-20M2U monitor. Are you going to do 2K editing with a MAC G5 and an AJA Kona 2, or a Digital Voodoo 64AV ?

You want to do the LATEST COOLEST THING, that 98% of the people on this forum are only dreaming about, and you want to do it with USED GEAR (where 2K workflow didn’t even exist a couple of years ago). Exactly what kind of USED GEAR are you talking about ? You are going to need MONSTER drive arrays, and a FAST computer with a product like a Kona 3 to do 2K. What kind of cheapo gear are you going to get to do a 2K job.

Why am I coming after you like this ? Because “new guys” that have no money that want to do Hi Def will start with HDV, or P2 or Sony XDCam, and work in heavily compressed 720p or 1080i, perhaps using Firewire interface, because they can’t afford a capture card or an HD monitor. But YOU want to go beyond this, even though you have no money – you want to do 2K, because 1080i with the ProRes422HQ codec is not good enough for you, and 720p with the DVCProHD codec is not good enogh for you you. YOU WANT 2K, you want THE BEST, but you have NO MONEY, yet you want to compete against the guys that have put up their life in hopes of getting some hi end work. WELL, THERE AINT NO CHEAPO 2K WORKFLOW (unless you are building an off line system, and will conform at a post house).

And if I am wrong, and you successfully find a way to charge $400 a day to conform 2K jobs, well, you will have to be punished. That’s all there is to it.

A nice MAC Pro with FCP and a Blackmagic Decklink HD Extreme or AJA Kona 3, and a drive array that exceeds 500mb/sec, and a Blackmagic HDLinkPro, and an Apple 30″ Cinema (and some audio monitoring) is what you need for a BARE BONES system. The drive array will be the most expensive part of your investment. And those raw 2K files will eat up your drive space like crazy. So you will run out of storage very quickly if you are doing a feature (even if you offline at DV25 NTSC – you want to conform at 2K, right?).

ITS NOT CHEAP, there is no cheap solution. And the solution I have listed above IS cheap. You should be kissing Blackmagic’s behind for coming out with the HDLink Pro, so you can see a 2K image file on an Apple 30″ Cinema display.

You are not going to get what you want.

bob Zelin

[Bryan Fowler]

Thanks Bob for the advice.

I have found a couple of people that are selling what I’m looking for (used gear). And I’ll be buying the rest of what I need from local VARs, and direct from dealers.