Advice for ONLINE workflow for multiple sources

[Shane Ross]

[Eugene Lehnert] “I have been capturing the 720p material as 23.98 through firewire. I took the DV timeline and Media Managed it to 720p 29.97. I then copied the clips from the 29.97 timeline into a 720p 23.98 timeline and pasted those clips into a bin for capture. Using the 29.97 code I captured the footage through firewire removing the 2:3 pulldown. I am going to then output this via the KONA 3 to HD tape and re-ingest the footage as Uncompressed 1080p 23.98 for the final conform.”

That is completely backwards. Using FCP to upconvert the footage, especially the Media Manager, is the worse way you can do this. No no no…you need to capture the DV footage INTO the Kona 3, not upconvert as you go out. Capture as 720p60, then use Compressor to remove the pulldown. I have a full workflow article on how to do this:

https://library.creativecow.net/articles/ross_shane/aja_kona3.php

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Eugene Lehnert]

Let me repost my question:

The client gave me a DV timeline that contains footage from multiple sources. One of which is 720p tapes shot at 24p @ 59.94 but edited using 29.97 DV tapes. Other footage is SD material that has been uprezzed to 1080p 23.98 and downconversions have been made to DV tapes to cut in the offline.

I isolated and media managed the 720p section of the DV offline edit to a 720p project with the clips offline so I would have empty clips with 29.97 timecode. Then I captured the clips from the DVCPROHD deck via firewire to remove the pulldown. I am not using the Media Manager to upconvert anything. I’m only using it to create a new timeline.

But I have a slightly different workflow now.

Now I am taking the DV edit and I am taking the isolated 720p/DV clips onto a different layer and copying those clips into a 720p 23.98 timeline. I then copied the clips into a bin and knocked them all offline. I will then recapture the files from the HD deck removing the pulldown through the firewire. I will then assemble the timeline and lay the 720p 23.98 shots to a 1080p 23.98 tape through the Kona card and re-ingesting the files. The new uprezzed 720p shots will then be cut into a 1080p timeline with the recaptured SD upconverted material. For the SD uprezzed material I exported an EDL and converted it to 23.98 using Cinema Tools and brought everything in off the HDCAM that was created.

Does this seem like the best way to do this? The DVCPROHD tapes have 29.97 code so I thought this would be the best way to work. But any advice is appreciated.

[Shane Ross]

[Eugene Lehnert] “The client gave me a DV timeline that contains footage from multiple sources. One of which is 720p tapes shot at 24p @ 59.94 but edited using 29.97 DV tapes. Other footage is SD material that has been uprezzed to 1080p 23.98 and downconversions have been made to DV tapes to cut in the offline.”

Wow…really? 720p59.94 downconverted to DV at 29.97 for offline? OK…that might work as they are similar rates. But SD 29.97 upconverted to 1080p 23.98 then DOWNCONVERTED to DV at 29.97? Serious? Wow…sorry, don’t mean to be rude but this boggles the mind. This sounds like a serious mess.

[Eugene Lehnert] “Then I captured the clips from the DVCPROHD deck via firewire to remove the pulldown.”

What pulldown? Oh, you shot at 720p24, but at 59.94 on tape and then captured via firewire so you could detect the flags on the footage to capture it at 23.98…gotcha. Still doesn’t help the SD 29.97 footage upconverted to 1080p 23.98 then back down to SD 29.97. Don’t know how you are going to match anything.

[Eugene Lehnert] “Now I am taking the DV edit and I am taking the isolated 720p/DV clips onto a different layer and copying those clips into a 720p 23.98 timeline. I then copied the clips into a bin and knocked them all offline. I will then recapture the files from the HD deck removing the pulldown through the firewire.”

Will that work? DID that work? Doesn’t sound like it will work. Just putting DV 29.97 clips into a 23.98 timeline and then taking them offline doesn’t suddenly make the clips 23.98…they are still 29.97. They are just in a 23.98 timeline (not a good thing to do, BTW). You’d have to use the Media Manager to highlight the original DV sequence and use the MAKE OFFLINE option and choose DVCPRO HD 720p as the option. But I don’t think you can change frame rates in this way…from 29.97 to 23.98.

[Eugene Lehnert] “The new uprezzed 720p shots will then be cut into a 1080p timeline with the recaptured SD upconverted material.”

MAN…this is a lot of work. You took something that could be done rather easily and made it VERY complicated. SO complicated that I think you have painted yourself into a corner…and I don’t know how you are going to walk out again. Then you do this:

[Eugene Lehnert] “For the SD uprezzed material I exported an EDL and converted it to 23.98 using Cinema Tools and brought everything in off the HDCAM that was created.”

Now THAT is the only thing that has made sense thus far. Taking a 29.97 timeline, converting the EDL to 23.98 and recapturing…that works. OK…now this part makes a tad more sense.

[Eugene Lehnert] “Does this seem like the best way to do this?”

Nope…not at all. Seems like the worse way to do this. Sorry, but it does.

BEST WAY? Capture DVCPRO HD via firewire or via a capture card (HD SDI) at full DVCPRO HD resolution and edit at full resolution. It isn’t even twice the data rate of DV, so the storage requirements are very low. Then capture all the SD footage as DVCPRO HD, upconverting to 720p60 then converting the frame rate to match using compressor (best done with the Kona 3 or Matrox MXO2…I have a FULL ARTICLE on how to do this…step by step). THen, if you have a 1080psf 23.98 delivery requirement, CROSS CONVERT the 720p to 1080p, again using the Kona 3 (or MXO2) to do this. Works rather well.

YOu took a solid AVID approach to editing…something not to do with FCP. You can offline/online, but you need to know how FCP does this best…because FCP is not Avid. Heck, I don’t know how you’d accomplish what you were doing if you tried to do this in an Avid. Mixing frame rates and a lot of stuff. Overcomplicated a very simple workflow.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Eugene Lehnert]

Shane-

Thanks for taking the time to write back. The project is finished and it all worked out.

I don’t know if I wasn’t being clear enough about the entire workflow but the client brought us a finished project ahead of time. Just for the record I made none of the initial workflow decisions. I was given an SD project that the client wanted mastered in 23.98 HD. They shot all of their interviews on DVCPRO tape and had downconversions made to DV. The production also began years. So my big question was how to deal with this situation in the best possible way. I understand it’s a lousy way to work.

Thanks!

Eugene