Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 & File Import

[Jon Barrie]

Hi Shar,
I’m not sure what type of video production you work in, but VOB is an unstable format to edit. I don’t blame PPro for not importing it in it’s native format. If you make the ext from VOB to MPG you can bring it in, but it still has the long GOP that makes frame accurate editing and playback unstable. It’s a playback format. DVD quality is so lossy it’s rediculous to use it in an edit if the original HDV/DV tape or files are available.
i don’t know anyone that uses DVD formated video as the backups. They either have tapes and the project files with all the recapturable information as offline file references or have the whole project with all media and other project files from PS or AE etc on a hard drive for storage with a spreedsheet to find relative project with the stored drive/s.
If you really want to work with VOB files then get Premiere Elements, no need to change the file extension. Most Editors use Elements to convert consumer formats in to stable DV files.

CS4 is geared to the future, look ahead my friend the video world has evolved. DVD is still around, but the web and downloadable content to play on TVs with HDD or computers to TVs is the future. I highly doubt BluRay will even be a legitimate format in the next 3-5 years as a downloadable version will work the same as a Disc, cost less to distribute, better on the green footprint of manufacturing, be more desirable for viewers, the list goes on.

DVD was great, never for editing, but it’s had its time why would a professional product want to go backwards. FCP used to bring in VOB files, badly I might add, but it doesn’t like anything if its not a QT.mov file.

Buy some Ext HDDs and do backup storage on them, list its contents and stop burning DVDs other than a master disc for duplication/client copies.

– Jon Barrie

How many editors does it take to change a light bulb?
http://www.jonbarrie.net

[Shar Chi]

Hi Jon, I do a range of event productions for clients ranging from small business to the largest companies in this country. I know that VOBs are a horrible format to work from, yet ask anyone outside the production office to name a video format, DVD is always the first cab off the rank. This is just a sad fact of life, today, the average joe around any given office still thinks in DVD. Look in any house at what video products are lying around, it’s DVD DVD DVD. It’s naive to pretend that DVD is not the ubiquitous video format of this era.

For Adobe not to support VOB is a huge copout, and one in a long line from the team, such as never supporting OMF, my PDX10 camera, VOB, etc. We both know the MPG file trick seldom works, although I wasnt aware that Premiere Elements supports VOB files. Why should I have to trick Premiere into supporting a file format anyway? In my mind, companies like Adobe should be making life easier for producers. I guess the kickback from MainConcept is big enough for Adobe to pretend DVD isn’t as important as it really is.

I personally film DVCAM, but every single project ends up on a DVD. Inevitably I get handed half a dozen DVDs every week to work into some event or other. This stuff comes from major advertising agents like Saatchi, TV Networks like Foxtel (they keep a lot of their sports archives on the worst encoded DVDs you’ve ever seen), as well as small back office producers. I am flabbergasted Adobe still ignores the elephant in the room. Can someone tell me does FCP support VOB import?

You can probably guess I’m exasperated by Adobe products for things that seem relatively simple and blindly obvious to address. Personally I think the head of Dev should be dropped in the sea with heavy shoes!

Now I wonder if Encore is worth using yet?! Hmmm

[Jon Barrie]

Shar,
I know that clients bring DVDs, I run my own small production co and freelance for several others. I and all the others I do work for are constantly ‘educating’ clients that DVD is for watching not for editing. We all charge them for the conversion time. I’ve done work with MPEG files that came from the Prod co that made the Volvo TVCs. They refused to give us the high quality video so they deliberately gave us 320×180 MPEG files. Do you think that company did that because they threw out the DigiBeta tapes or didn’t have the originals on the computer anymore? It’s because they know its a bogus format and they were cut that we produced something with their original client that they said would cost $500,000 to do when I cut it at full rate and it came to $3,500.
It’s a sad fact that non video professionals think about video naively, some people think you can edit YouTube video and then put it on TV and it looks as good as TV because your watching it on a TV not the computer screen.
Some VOB files don’t import with the MPG ext because of the audio format. if its a simple dolby stereo it should work. If its surround or DTS it won’t. So I usually convert the audio seperately. DVD is not consistent esp with VBR. It’s not professional format and should stay out of any and all Professional apps.
As for FCP importing VOB files. I have version 6 on hand and it can bring it in. It will only see the vision. There is no audio no matter what you do with it. FCP is even less a help if there is no audio support at all. The frame accuracy of stopping and cutting is completely unreliable so FCP won’t help you either.
I don’t even think Avid supports VOB files properly or even at all.
– Jon Barrie 😉

How many editors does it take to change a light bulb?
http://www.jonbarrie.net

[Jeff Brown]

Get a DVD player with y/c or component out, digitize to a format you can edit with. The conversion is real time. After messing with importing VOB as MPEG, or trying conversion software, that’s what I’ve found working best.

-jeff

[Shar Chi]

Cool Jon, well it seems you’re fairly happy with the status quo with Premiere, and that’s fine. I’m no fan of Avid, and when I last used FCP (v5) I left the suite cursing like a pirate! (Numeric-based time stretching – wtf, no stretch tool?!)

I just know that my life would be that much easier, every day, if my main editing app could handle the most common format video in the world. DVD is an unwelcome guest that invites itself to my desk party every day, and looks set to remain that way for years to come, and I know I’m not the only one… mebbe just the only one to point out the obvious.

Thanks for the tips. I mean yes, Procoder does the conversion most of the time, I just don’t see why Adobe are so naive / arrogant with file formats (and I won’t get started on their AU pricing markups). I’ll take a look at elements, if it really handles vobs I’ll have to laugh at the irony.

And thanks Jeff, yes I resort to the composite player method from time to time when even procoder cant handle the vob. I guess my point is why should we have to endure such voodoo & chicanery in 2008?!!!

[Gene Colburn — email address bounces notices]

Shar Chi

I am in your camp. What does the development team at Adobe not understand. Today’s edit session invariably includes elements from every imaginable format, including VOB. FCP has compressor. In keeping with tight integration of Bridge etc., one would think Adobe would face this void. (Like make a project based subclip on the timeline for elements that don’t conform) But it is my feeling, and Jon just reiterated, the cool tools from Adobe are for web based content, and MAC based integration.

If you want a 64 bit PC app that will fill your needs for film based production, or corporate polished pieces, you are on the wrong forum. I am truly sorry about that, as I used to be a big fan of Premiere. Evey year I thought yeah this will be it…….

Adobe still rocks for AE PS, DW, AI etc. One would think that if Adobe so desired, they could lead the market for NLE as witnessed by AE. After emptying my bank account for the Master collection which does not include Audition, I will not be upgrading until they resolve some basic deficiencies, which by the way are not considered off of this forum.

Maybe I am just venting after congress passed the rescue package and left the rest of us holding the bag. So everyone just forget this post and be happy with your tools that work. Tomorrow is another day. “That’s if we still have jobs”.

[Jon Barrie]

Hi Gene,
FCP has compressor.

Adobe Media Encoder is now a stand alone app in CS4. It runs in the BG so you can keep editing in PPro or AE while it’s rendering out the queue. You can keep adding to the queue while its still rendering. You can monitor the renders. Far superior to the FCS Compressor.

Read up on your current info before you start slagging.

You are right on one thing. All production people should be happy with the tools they have if they work.

– Jon Barrie 😉

How many editors does it take to change a light bulb?
http://www.jonbarrie.net

[Mike Cohen]

Knowing software’s limitations is a big part of using it efficiently.
We always capture DVD video in real-time, or if we import the VOB file (.MPG) the first step is to export to AVI so we are editing DV, not long GOP MPG.
As others have discussed, there are alternatives to accomplish most tasks.
Mike Cohen

[Tim Kolb]

[Shar Chi] “I just don’t see why Adobe are so naive / arrogant with file formats (and I won’t get started on their AU pricing markups). I’ll take a look at elements, if it really handles vobs I’ll have to laugh at the irony.”

You can laugh, but a consumer tool has a different audience and different filetypes…Premiere Elements probably won’t have an uncompressed HD project setting or P2 MXF capability.

Honestly, there are an endless variety of workflows out there and I have been at this for a very long time (about 22 years) and I can count on one hand the instances I’ve had to use an authored DVD for an edit source for any company, much less one of “the largest in the country”… My workflow may not be typical of course, but I think yours might be less typical than you think as well…

Sometimes arrogant, naive myopia exists in customers too…

VOB editing probably won’t be in there any time soon. Last time I looked, even Vegas “imports” DVD media and transcodes it to something that is easier to edit.

CS4 has some fairly amazing capabilities. But since you may be faced with this VOB editing situation frequently, perhaps CS4 isn’t right for your purposes…

Perhaps Avid Liquid does it? Maybe later versions of Vegas? Edius? You’re certainly within your rights to use a tool that you’re happy with…

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

CPO, Digieffects

[Perry Cheng]

How preview while capturing HD? Any news on that?

Perry