Adobe 2.0 audio should I upgrade??? or pass…..

[Tim Kolb]

You can split the audio tracks in PPro 2.0, but you can make it work without aditional software in PPro v1 by selecting only the audio portion of the clip on the timeline (alt-click on the audio) and copy/pasting it underneath the original. Then apply the stereo audio effects “Fill Right” to one clip and “Fill Left” to the other. You will then have two channels with independent control, even in PPro v1.

TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Brett Nelson]

2.0 is a big improvement over 1.0 in dealing with split track audio. If you do much split track recording, this alone makes the upgrade worth it, IMO.

Having said that, I think the audio capabilities are still a pain. You can now split tracks as you would like, but you have to do it in the Project window on a clip by clip basis. Also, once you place a clip in any sequence, you can no longer change the audio settings of that clip in the Project window (and as a result in any other Sequence). So let’s say you build 3 sequences using the same clip and decide later you want Shotgun track rather than Lav or a combination of the two rather than the one you chose…you have to go find and remove all of those clips first, change the audio and then place them back where they belong. That’s messed up, sorry. Am I wrong about this being the way you have to do it?

The above is obviously not a problem if you know at the start which tracks you want to use going forward. Fortunately, it treats each subclip as a new and different audio source, so you can change audio from track to track on a subclip by subclip basis.

Brett

[Ron Shook]

Brett,

[Brett Nelson] “You can now split tracks as you would like, but you have to do it in the Project window on a clip by clip basis.”

I know that this statement isn’t accurate. There is a way to split multiple selected clips (that share the same audio properties) simultaneously in the bin. I don’t remember just what the procedure is, but someone should chime in.

[Brett Nelson] “So let’s say you build 3 sequences using the same clip and decide later you want Shotgun track rather than Lav or a combination of the two rather than the one you chose…you have to go find and remove all of those clips first, change the audio and then place them back where they belong.”

Maybe I’m not following, but knowing what you do, what is to prevent you from installing both tracks on the timeline and zeroing out the one you don’t want to use? If you change your mind later, simply adjust the audio on the tracks separately. Am I missing something?

Ron Shook

[Tim Kolb]

[Ron Shook] “[Brett Nelson] “You can now split tracks as you would like, but you have to do it in the Project window on a clip by clip basis.”

I know that this statement isn’t accurate. There is a way to split multiple selected clips (that share the same audio properties) simultaneously in the bin. I don’t remember just what the procedure is, but someone should chime in.”

Just select the clip(s) and go to Clip>Audio Options>Source channel mappings and change “stereo” to “mono” by clicking the button…the two tracks now go to two mono audio tracks. No clip by clip basis…

TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Brett Nelson]

I’m glad to learn this! However, this doesn’t answer my bigger frustration…I can’t change a clip’s Source Channel Mapping if it’s already in use in any Sequence. I also can’t select a whole group of clips and change any of their Mappings if any of those clips is in use in a Sequence. Again, I’ll be very happy to be mistaken on this.

Brett

[Tim Kolb]

Well…I’ll check it when I have the chance, but since trying to remap audio destinations when a clip is on a sequence has to either overwrite an audio clip on another track or create an additional audio track. I’m guessing that isn’t in there.

What sort of workflow do you have that you are trying to remap audio on the timeline?

TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Mike Cohen]

There have been some threads on this subject further down this forum.
Looking at it from a Media 100 perspective, for example, you capture a clip which has say lav on ch.1 and shotgun on ch.2 – you can adjust the tracks together or independently without extra steps of unlinking and duplicating tracks. You drag a stereo clip to the timeline, and channel 1 audio goes to audio track 1, 2 goes to 2, or whatever you tell it to map them to, as opposed to one steroe track of a clip occupying just one stereo track on the timeline.
It is a bit clunky, but that fill left/fill right effect is a lifesaver. You can set one clip and then copy and paste attributes to many clips simultaneously.

[Tim Kolb]

[Mike Cohen] “Looking at it from a Media 100 perspective, for example, you capture a clip which has say lav on ch.1 and shotgun on ch.2 – you can adjust the tracks together or independently without extra steps of unlinking and duplicating tracks. You drag a stereo clip to the timeline, and channel 1 audio goes to audio track 1, 2 goes to 2, or whatever you tell it to map them to, as opposed to one steroe track of a clip occupying just one stereo track on the timeline.
It is a bit clunky, but that fill left/fill right effect is a lifesaver. You can set one clip and then copy and paste attributes to many clips simultaneously.”

Hmmm…I think I may have given the wrong impression. I have no problem understanding why we would want the two camera audio tracks on two separate channels…I’ve been wanting the same thing for a long time (and lobbying for it), it makes sense.

What I was wondering about was what sort of workflow you’d have that you end up needing to drop a stereo clip onto the timeline in stereo…and then at some later point, make two mono tracks from it on the timeline.

Brett’s assertion that the feature doesn’t serve him well because he can’t batch remap stereo audio to mono tracks on the timeline has me wondering in what sort of workfow one would need to make the remap decision after all the media is laid down on a timeline.

…necessitating the creation of two new audio tracks (as neither mono clip can stay on the stereo track), the only option being to risk overwriting mono audio that may already exist on mono tracks, or to do some automated version of the “duplicate audio clip, fill right/fill left” procedure which would only create one additional stereo audio track.

My question just pertains to why an editor could not just simply remap the audio in the project window on all the media and go with it. I’m sure there is a logical answer to the question…I just don’t know what it is…

TimK,

Kolb Productions,
Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net

[Brett Nelson]

Mike, that’s what I’m talking about… You can make it work in PPro, but it’s a cumbersome. I don’t want to have to decide if a track is stereo or mono at the start. I don’t want to have to think about the type of audio track in advance. I want to capture it, and throw it into the timeline and move it around freely. The fact that I have to make a distinction between stereo and mono up front is a challenge.

I know that part of the issue is my being a newbie to PPro and needing to learn a different audio workflow. However, it’s different from other NLE’s and it’s a roadblock getting editors to switch over to PPro. Maybe others are different, but some of my audio is recorded stereo and will be used at one point mono and at another point stereo. Needing to decide which it will be, before it gets into the timeline, doesn’t fit that scenario very well. Particularly, when I have to decide how the clip will be mapped throughout the whole project. I don’t know at the start, all the ways I will use audio from a particular source.

Again, I think 2.0 is a big step up from 1.5. I think a lot of good work has gone into it. I also really hope some of these kinds of issues will be quickly addressed and overcome in 2.5.

Brett

[Brett Nelson]

Tim,
I didn’t read your latest post before responding to Mike…you’re question of why it’s needed is good. I did a short last year that had 12 different audio tracks. It was actually some of the time 6 stereo pairs and some of the time 2 stereo pairs and 8 mono tracks, etc. The sound designer asked for a variety of combinations of these tracks. I don’t know how I would have done it with PPro. I had about 50 timelines by the time it was done. The audio came in one way and then got used another elsewhere. The uses of the audio evolved. Particularly in the back and forth with the sound designer. And I wasn’t even thinking about 5.1. To commit to using an audio clip the same way across many timelines is a problem. Does this make sense?

For many projects (maybe most, I don’t know), the current audio capabilities work well. But for long form projects with complicated audio, PPro needs work.

Thanks for the responses!

Brett