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A frank response to the posts ” I QUIT…. Working for nothing” and “” Worth It Anymore”??”
A frank response to the posts ” I QUIT…. Working for nothing” and “Worth It Anymore??”
To the original poster,
for many years i was like you, it was hard to find work – and there is nothing more demoralizing than the feeling that no one wants to hire you, when in fact its just the market shifting.
However, i decided to take matters in to my own hands and started producing my own tv shows.
Due to the rising demand in content acquisition by TV stations and networks world wide there is no shortage of work BUT sometimes that work has to come from yourself!!
You have your own equipment
you know how to tell a story
you know how to shoot and light etc
and edit
and produce
and schedule
and budget
so and so onDon’t waste your passion, don’t give up. If you have to make ends meet by changing jobs/fields, do it, BUT you still have weekends to create!!
What i’ve found is:
– everybody is a TV show just waiting to happen
– everybody is an interview just waiting to happen and you don’t have pay to interview someone
– every city is brimming with a TV show just waiting to be shot
– locations are available for free, for a simple line in the credits, or a mention by a host etcRight now i’m in current production of:
– a 13ep x 22min business round-table show, à la “dinner for five”, or filmfellas
– a 13ep x 22min Eco/green home show à la HGTV
– a one off x 52min about architecture in my city
– a one off x 52min about the awesome scale of statistics in my city (“90 million taxi rides a month, WTF”)à la discovery channel megastructures etcand:
when i need extra hands like a:
– boom op/sound recordist
– graphics
– a second camera (b cam,jib, stabilizer etc)
– production assistant
– or any extra help
– grip, focus puller
…then I hire those kids who work for almost nothing!
and:
VO artists who work via the internet, do a great job, and don’t cost a lot.Will HGTV buy my show? NOPE
will Discovery buy my show? hell no!BUT (via television programming distribution companies)there are 1000s of international TV stations and networks and inflight, vod, fvod, terrestrial, broadcast, cable, satellite, iptv who will buy.
AND TV shows, like books and music, can sell for years and years and years
My biggest costs for these productions so far will be the cost of the deliverables to the television programming distribution companies. ie: HDCAM masters(…one tape per episode, yikes!)
one caveat, you need to complete a series/one-off before a distribution will think about selling it for you but THAT IS A RISK YOU MUST TAKE IF YOU ARE LOSING THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT YOU LOVE!
and i also:
– sell my stock footage
– sell my stock audio/musicthere is still a career in the stories around you!
cheers
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29 Replies
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[Chen Wu Xin] “…when i need extra hands…then I hire those kids who work for almost nothing!”
Oh that’s what we love to hear….
There’s being economical, and then there’s being “penny wise but pound foolish.” I’m not sure being a cheapskate is something to brag about or be proud of.
Those jobs on your list… a no-experience almost-freebie kid as a camera op? A sound recordist? A graphic artist? A focus puller (which is one of the most-difficult-to-master and unsung jobs in the business)?
Quality-wise, you get what you pay for.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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‘cheapscate’?!?
wow, not really, its called being economical! Staying competitive.
why pay the 50 year old videographer 700 to shoot a talking head, when a 24 year, who has a quality reel and comes recommended, will do it for for 240?
Do you call all your potential clients who go with the cheaper bids than yours, ‘cheapskates’??
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“You pay peanuts, you get squirrels”.
Xin, I liked your initial post and its “can-do” optimism, very much. It echoes much of what I’ve said before. However, you can always expect the old pros here to bristle a bit when someone suggests hiring less-experienced people at very low wages.
There’s nothing wrong with giving newbies a break, but that comes with the understanding that you’re going to have to hand-hold them a bit and supervise them more tightly to ensure mistakes don’t happen. Interns are there to learn first, not just to be cheap labor.
Secondly, inexperienced talent plus below-market rates often equals an un-even product quality, and false economy. My good late friend Lou Rosenblate used to call this “Stepping over dollars, to pick up dimes”. When you wind up having to do re-shoots, or having to replace damaged gear, because the bargain-basement CraigsLister over-sold his or her abilities… that’s not savings. Or if you run longer because of mistakes and on the job traning sessions for help that’s not fully capable yet, that lost time also represents lost income. Nowhere is this more evident than in hiring actors themselves: cheap unskilled amateurs cost you more in lost time than it would have cost to hire experienced pros who get it right in one take, and are consistent over multiple takes.
So, I applaud the first part of your post and the sentiments there, but I’m with Todd in saying the way you phrased the part about hiring cheap labor, hits a sour note for me.
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[Chen Wu Xin] “Do you call all your potential clients who go with the cheaper bids than yours, ‘cheapskates’??”
Oh sure, if they are one.
Some are, some aren’t. We’ll frequently refer potential clients elsewhere if their project simply doesn’t warrant the rate that we charge, and they can get work sufficiently for what they need elsewhere. There’s one particular one-man very-solid company that I refer people to at least every week or two when we have a potential client but they can more than get by with less than high-end work.
But some definitely are cheapskates. We had a guy come in this week who wanted what should have been a higher-end medical video re-done. He’d already had it produced elsewhere, and was horrified at the results. We were, too… it was literally sub-par for junior-high audio-video club work. Literally… horrible lighting, bad graphics, terrible editing, the talking heads were with an on-camera mic 10 feet away, and all the transitions were clockwipes. If it hadn’t been so sad, it would have almost been funny. Well, we gave this guy a very reasonable quote, only a few thousand bucks (probably half what it should have been), but this guy balked… that was way too rich for his blood. And yet he wanted a high-end video, and this guy is probably worth millions of dollars. Is he a cheapskate? Absolutely.
I’m with Mark… I applaud your enthusiasm and can-do attitude. But I’m just saying you get what you pay for. Several of those positions you mentioned are very skilled positions. A good sound recordist can make or break a project. There are ACs in Hollywood who work focus-pulling for years before learning to perfectly and repeatedly nail a pin-sharp focus in a moving shallow depth-of-field scene. But you are touting (with an exclamation mark) paying “next to nothing!” to get these important jobs done.
I hire very good people, and I pay them very well. It does make a difference.
Although I’m not a freelancer myself, I often hire them and have many friends who are freelancers. It’s disheartening to see that this business has turned into a pay-’em-peanuts or “Who’s the cheapest guy I can find on CraigsList?” mentality. And it sure shows in the finished product.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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[Todd Terry] “I hire very good people, and I pay them very well. It does make a difference.”
1000% agree. Those who do good work with a lot less are a very rare breed. Those who charge less and turn out crap are a dime a dozen and quite honestly, are good for my business when we have to come in behind them and clean up the mess.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“This American Land” – our new PBS Series.
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[walter biscardi] “[Todd Terry] “I hire very good people, and I pay them very well. It does make a difference.”
1000% agree. Those who do good work with a lot less are a very rare breed. Those who charge less and turn out crap are a dime a dozen and quite honestly, are good for my business when we have to come in behind them and clean up the mess.”
I was in a small market where the cable companies did local commercials for free. I built my business by doing work that was so much better than what people got for free that I could charge pretty much whatever I wanted.
That said, I don’t agree at all. People doing more with less isn’t rare. People like that are running through the COW by the hundreds of thousands.
Walter, you’re one of them. You’re just doing it on a larger scale. One of the several key vectors in your business is that you’ve used technology and creativity to do the work of a company ten times your size. But you started a business in your 30s as one guy doing more with less. The difference now is that people are starting in their 20s.
Chen Wu Xing wasn’t even talking about a business owner, but talking about a hireling. You can get really good hirelings for peanuts. A suit by the interns on Black Swan is turning into a class action suit against Fox, because they were working for free, instead of the contract amount of the…oops… $8 an hour they were due. The suit will surely spread to the other studios as legions of young people are demanding the right to be paid $8/hour on Oscar-caliber feature films.
Seriously, did Black Swan turn out well enough for you? You feel like anybody needed to go in fix it? And not that key VFX shots were being done by $8/hour interns — but I guarantee that when you look at those 300 names scrolling through the credits, you make more than all but maybe two dozen of them, and that a lot of key shots DID have people working for free on them, instead of the $8/hour they SHOULD have been making.
Look, I’ve spent most of the past decade orbiting around education. The fastest growing liberal arts programs have been media-centered for years. They’re not just scratching their asses in those programs either. Students are often working with better gear than you are, and working on real projects — including things like Black Swan — for next to nothing, and coming out of school every four years, ready to work for next to nothing on a full-time basis.
Schools like Full Sail are doing laser-focused training on producing genuine artists. In fact, you have to qualify with a pencil and a paintbrush before they let you touch a camera. A lot of these kids have chops that you never will, and Full Sail is cranking them out every 13 months.
It’s not just the gear that has become commoditized. Creativity, skill and experience have too.
Tim Wilson
Vice President, Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW Magazine
Twitter: timdoubleyouThe typos here are most likely because I’m, a) typing this on my phone; and b) an idiot.
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OK, perhaps I was being too colorful and enthusiastic in my hope of trying to save a creative individual. The last thing we need in this world is less art.
How’s this
and when i need extra hands like a:
– boom op/sound recordist
– graphics
– a second camera (b cam,jib stabilizer etc)
– production assistant
– or any extra help
…THEN I HIRE PROFESSIONALS FROM THE APPROXIMATE AGE OF 21 TO 32 WHO CHARGE ON AVERAGE A THIRD OF WHAT THE LOCAL VETERANS IN MY MARKET CHARGE.Gentlemen
Sometimes it helps to ignore the ambiguity of a few words and embrace the intended spirit of the message, and then nurture that spirit with energy and enthusiasm!!my intention was to show the poster that a good production does not always need a huge crew, a huge budget or the most talented people, and that he/she can continue to tell colorful intriguing interesting stories and create a good watch! and hell hopefully continue to make a living while doing so?
Does having the best people help? sure. But…I’ll listen to an old cassette tape boot leg of a Beatles gig before I listen to a Justin beeber CD, even though the beiber tracks possibly employed the finest, trackers, mixers and mastering pros in the biz, not to mention studio musicians.
My old cinematography teacher, a former head of the canadian society for cinematographers, also use to lens for the CBC (Canada’a BBC). He used to regale us with stories of skeleton crews, and nagras with reels erased and used a dozen times, and machine ops who were asked to edit once a month by producers under the gun of the deadline.
And these docs, just brilliant! All story!
Walter, I truly admire you and the work your company has done, I’ve been following your career for as long as it has been public on the internet, probably I guess from the beginning of creative cow, and your blog has its own column in my news reader app. (great ed. on CNN BTW)
If recall correctly, Good Eats, first season, didn’t have the greatest production value. At this moment I can’t recall if it was the video that was blown out, or audio that was distorted on an episode or two, (god, I hope its not MY dvd copy) anyways my point is, someone had the idea for a great show and they did it.when the masters were handed into the food network, it still aired, even though someone at quality control probably said ‘hey the audio is 6db in the red’
But it aired cuz it was good tv!
Please, never tell a fellow creative (especially someone we don’t know personally) that they ‘can’t’, or ‘shouldn’t’ produce something because they can’t afford the best people.
cheers
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[Tim Wilson] “Schools like Full Sail are doing laser-focused training on producing genuine artists. In fact, you have to qualify with a pencil and a paintbrush before they let you touch a camera. A lot of these kids have chops that you never will, and Full Sail is cranking them out every 13 months.”
They’re laser focused on the craft for sure, but I’ve yet to meet any of these folks coming out of the art schools who have any clue how to do time / project management. And that’s where they get themselves in trouble, allowing me to come in and clean up after them. They’ll hone in on that one part of the project they really like and then the rest of it falls apart. I’ve seen videos with absolutely incredible opening titles and graphics, but the video itself looks like crap because the person spent weeks creating the graphics and 2 days cutting the video, and it shows.
It’s one thing to simply know the craft. I have an 11 year old I can call upon to add muzzle flashes and all manner of SFX to AE projects if I want and he’s quite talented. There’s a high school not even 3 miles down the road with more SFX and video talented kids than we had at Syracuse Univ. when I was there and we are already making plans to work with the kids and get the involved with our projects.
That’s the disconnect Tim. Laser focused incredible talent is out there, but turning them loose on a project is something I would have a hard time doing unless they are just one small part of a large team.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“This American Land” – our new PBS Series.
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[walter biscardi] “That’s the disconnect Tim. Laser focused incredible talent is out there, but turning them loose on a project is something I would have a hard time doing unless they are just one small part of a large team.”
Again, you are choosing to isolate a few words to make your point, but are missing spirit of what Tim W. was writing about.
we are not talking about the people we hire to come in and produce(project management)a production on their own, that’s my job!!! Just its as yours, as the head of your company.
When we hire, we are hiring individuals to perform specific tasks. Who can get the job done.
most of us agree we hire on personality, quality of work, and work ethic, regardless of age. The quality/cost of work directly relates to the work being assigned (project management 101)
And sorry i’m not going to hire the best boom op who works major TV/Hollywood caliber productions for a talking head gig.
I’m not going to hire the Maya guru to do a simple title.
I’m not going to hire Todd’s Fantastic Plastic to come in with HMI’s and an e35 cinema camera package to shoot a locked off, medium close up of a customer testimonial.
I’m going to go the with people who do a great job, and of course cost is a factor!! If they are young, so be it, if their rate is low, awesome.
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Dear Chen,
Where can we see these programs you have produced so we all know what we are talking about here? I see no evidence on the internet of your existence. Please advise.
Sincerely,
Ned
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
http://www.bizvideo.com
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