30p in final cut pro: is it worth it?

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dave LaRonde] “Perhaps our JeremyG doesn’t have a broadcast monitor. But I do”

Yeah, I don’t have a computer either. I edit linear. I am also typing from a typewriter modified by a guy down the street that’s a wiz with electronics. It’s a little heavier than a laptop, needs constant power, but the print ribbons are cheap.

Of course I have a broadcast monitor, dude.

The reason why you change the ‘field dominance’ is that any motion that you do in FCP, (a title, moving of video across the screen, whatever) will get rendered with interlace. If you turn the field dominance to none, interlacing renders won’t happen. IT will not effect the video already captured, it won’t effect a prerendered movie from a compositing program, only graphics that are created in FCP. Since I have a ton of clients who watch DVDs on computers, web movies, and progressive tvs, I always always always try and have as little interlacing as possible. Otherwise, I’d shoot 60i, but I don’t. WHy introduce interlacing? You just said yourself that you render out of AE with no fields, so why do you do it in FCP? So yes, stephanhill, turn the sequence settings to none from lower.

Jeremy

[Russell Lasson]

[Dave LaRonde] “you see a slight change due to motion over time. But on the second field of the new frame, you see NO change due to motion over time.”

Yes. Like 24psf.

I think we’re all on the same page here, but having a hard time describing to each other what the heck the page says.

-Russ

[Stephan Hill]

this has been one of best and most informative CC discusions!

Thanks everyone!

[Chris Poisson]

I totally agree with Shane. I have been shooting EVERYTHING at 30p for going on 3 months now, and I just love it. You get the progressive look without the BS of dealing with 24fps.

BTW, before I had my Canon A1 I shot a lot of 30p with my DVX100, and I was fond of that look as well. It’s funny, but even when using Nattress film look filters on 29.97 footage over tha past few years I was using the 30p option in there as well. I just like it better than 24.

[Tom Brooks]

Dave,
That’s why I said please enlighten me. Working in the field you do I have no doubt you know a lot more about the makeup of the TV image than I do. I guess what I’m getting at, or trying to, is that there’s no free lunch with 30P. Believe me, I’m seriously trying to grasp this. If I find a way to SHOW this concept I’ll be sure to let you in on it. Meanwhile, we can all have fun working in the multitude of formats on the market at the moment.
-Tom

[Russell Lasson]

[Tom Brooks] “Meanwhile, we can all have fun working in the multitude of formats on the market at the moment.”

Hmmmm…. I wonder what 27fps would look like 🙂

-Russ

[Tom Brooks]

[Dave LaRonde] ”
Well, if you can see the interlacing at 29.97 WITHOUT figuring out a way to pause on the wrong field, then more power to you.”

Whether I can see it or not, especially in PAUSE, isn’t completely the point. That’s the great thing about 30P. Paused, it looks great. But when the video is moving, I stand by the contention that, in 30P NTSC playback, there are fields with motion recorded a sixtieth of a second apart which are interlaced together. If they’re there, you can see them, albeit in a very subtle way. You don’t get all the benefit of 30P when you play it in NTSC. You get 2/3 of the benefit.

A wealth of stuff to think about and at least a couple real-world tips to take home from the herd. Hope my devil’s advocacy didn’t hijack the original post too much.

[Tom Brooks]

Interesting tip that I’m sure a lot of 30P experimenters might miss at first.

[Shane Ross]

[Tom Brooks] “when the video is moving, I stand by the contention that, in 30P NTSC playback, there are fields with motion recorded a sixtieth of a second apart which are interlaced together”

I simply don’t see that. I don’t see interlacing at any time with this footage. No stuttering, no weird trails or lines…it looks filmic. Not smooth playing video, but not stuttery as well.

How are you looking at this? I am judging on both an NTSC monitor AND on a TV playing back a DVD.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Rafael Amador]

(Dave LaRonde) You DON’T NEED ONE if you shoot 30p. You capture DV as normal, and you work in a DV timeline as normal. The progressive scan is taken care of inside the camera, and it comes out as normal, interlaced DV video. But because the camera captures the whole frame in the same instant, then records two fields from this complete frame, it looks like a complete frame. Very cool.

[JeremyG] You should change the field order of the sequence from lower to none though, that way all renders will remain progressive (such as graphics, text, whatever) and not get rendered interlaced.

I think that those are the two most important points. Shoot 30p and edit in a 60i with the field order set to NONE.
Rafael