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30p in final cut pro: is it worth it?
I shooting with a Panasonic DVX100P and have the chance to show a future video on a progressive scan dvd player and monitor. is it worth quality wise to shoot in any of the “p” modes with the camera, edit in this mode as well so it can be displayed as progressive scan?
if the answer is yes, what type of template should be created since FCP does not supply one.
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82 Replies
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30P isn’t very common. If you were going to shoot progressive, I’d shoot 24P (23.98). It gives the show a more cinematic/narrative feel.
From there, edit at 23.98 (shoot at 24PA and remove the pulldown over firewire when you digitize the footage). Then make your final DVD at 23.98. If it’s playing on a progressive DVD player it will output the 23.98 file. If not, the DVD players will convert it to 29.97 by adding a 2:3 pulldown.
-Russ
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I am working on a project that was shot ENTIRELY on 30p. Both to tape and to P2 cards…DVCPRO 50. Since we deliver a digibeta master that rungs at 29.97, we’d rather shoot 29.97 and still retain the “film look” by shooting progressive.
This is not uncommon at all.
If we shot 23.98, then we’d have a whole lot of conversions to worry about, and we aren’t about to make our lives MORE complicated.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Dave LaRonde] “Now, unless you’re one of those people who think that 24p is soooo cool and soooo superior a frame rate that you just can’t live without using it, I’d use 30p.”
That’s me:)
I wouldn’t say it is superior, but I do like it more.
-Russ
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[Shane Ross] “This is not uncommon at all.”
Cool. I’ll have to play with 30P a little more. I’ve only tried testing it in comparison to 24P. I’ll take another look at it as it might be a good fit on a future project.
[Shane Ross] “If we shot 23.98, then we’d have a whole lot of conversions to worry about, and we aren’t about to make our lives MORE complicated.”
I’m not sure I would say adding a 2:3 pulldown via a capture card when making a tape master is all that complicated. But I can see where you’re coming from as far as trying to simplify the workflow.
-Russ
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You should change the field order of the sequence from lower to none though, that way all renders will remain progressive (such as graphics, text, whatever) and not get rendered interlaced.
Hit command-0 to open up your sequence settings and change the field dominance there.
Jeremy
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thanks for all of the great post!
I understand the progressive scan mode in the camera but wouldn’t I be throwing away half the information if I edit in a interlaced mode? shouldn’t I take the advice of JeremyG and modify a regular DV-NTSC 29.97i to no interlacing?
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[stephanhill] “shouldn’t I take the advice of JeremyG and modify a regular DV-NTSC 29.97i to no interlacing?”
Yes.
[stephanhill] “but wouldn’t I be throwing away half the information if I edit in a interlaced mode?”
No. Your video is still interlaced, it’s just that each field is exactly the same so you won’t see the interlace comb on your footage. By turning the filed dom. to none, you won’t reintroduce interlacing on any of your renders either.
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If you were shooting with the Sony in CINEFRAME mode…yes. It tosses half the info. But the Panasonic doesn’t…full quality. DARN good camera, I’m jealous.
(can you tell that I own a GL1?)
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
If you shoot at 30P then you have one complete frame every 1/30th of a second.
If you shoot at 60i then you have one field every 1/60th of a second. At the next 1/60th of a second, the motion changes. So if you combine those two fields, you get one frame with two different fields.
He’s still suggesting that you shoot at 30P and not 60i.
-Russ
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Guys,
Enlighten me here. I’m probably putting my ignorance on display. Can you make a progressive DVD in 30P? Otherwise, what is the use of 30P? While Dave’s description of the 30P recording in the camera sounds correct to me, the reality of its playback in an interlaced world is complicated and not clearly advantageous.It’s going to have a comb-tooth look every sixtieth of a second, isn’t it? I’m talking about displaying it on an interlaced display, which is 60i in my world. It’s described in “The HVX Book” by Barry Green.
So, I don’t see an advantage to 30P–for interlaced display. If you play it back as progressive frames on a progressive display, there’s no question. That’s why the FCP manual recommends that you only shoot and edit progressive when your output is progressive only. For what it’s worth. I wish you could convince me otherwise. This is a puzzler to me.
Thanks for shedding light on the topic.
-Tom
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