24P and 24PN

[Michael Sacci]

24PN can only be recorded to the P2 card. The native will only record 24 frames and this is why you get 20 minutes of 720P@24PN on an 8GB card vs the normal 8 minutes. In all the other settings there are always 60 frames per second being recorded. (59.94) so if you have the camera set to 30P it records 2 copies of every frame, 24 records 2 or 3 copies of each frame to balance out the 24 individual frames in the 60 frames per second. On ingest these duplicate frames are removed and you are left with basically the 24PN stream.

So when ever you are shoot on p2 it makes sense to use PN mode, when you are recording to a firestore or computer you cannot use PN because it will not pass through firewire.

[Bryant Joseph]

so is this a different setting than say, 720p at 24p?

is there a special PN mode separate from the usual mode selection?

[Michael Sacci]

[Sam Waldorf] “so is this a different setting than say, 720p at 24p? “
what are you referring to as “this”

don’t know what you are asking.

[Adam Smith]

[Sam Waldorf] “so is this a different setting than say, 720p at 24p?

is there a special PN mode separate from the usual mode selection?”

When you select a progressive frame recording format you also choose from P, PA or PN.

Using your 24p example…

P (Progressive) movies are recorded with duplicate frames so they have the look of 24 but actually contain the full 60 frames required to meet 720p spec.

PA (Progressive-Advanced) movies are similar to the above, but the duplicate frames are flagged for automated removal on ingest. The resulting movie is 24fps.

PN (Progressive-Native) movies are recorded at 24 frames, period. Not compatible with firewire out to a disk recorder, but saves a ton of space when recording and does not require pulldown removal.

So if you want the look of 24p but do not require true 24fps footage, then you likely want to shoot ‘P’.

If you plan to print to film, create a 24p DVD, or go straight to the web, then you’d probably go with advanced pulldown removal (PA), or only record the 24 fps you need to start with (PN). You could also add pulldown later to pad this footage up to the standard 60 (59.94).

-Adam

– – –
Video Photographer / Avid & Final Cut Editor

[Bryant Joseph]

what about using 24PN with Final cut pro 5 or 6?

What timeline setting does this use?

any special editing conditions with native 24fps?

and does it still used drop frame time-code or what?

[Michael Sacci]

To FCP with 720P (there is no 24pA) the sequence would most likely be the same, 23.98, the difference is on ingest. If you shoot 24P you strip out the duplicate frames leaving what is the same as that would have been recorded 24PN. The one major difference is the frame TC. WIth 24PN you will get , 00,01,02,03… and so on. With 24P after you ingest and remove the dupiicate framers you will see 01,02,04,07 and so on (note actual numbers as not meant to be the actual numbers)

The difference would be if you wanted to shoot 24P but edit that in a 60P timeline, the footage shoot in 24P and then ingested WITHOUT removing the duplicate frames would drop right in.

An other way to putting it is that the 24P records the same frames as 24PN but it imbeds it into a 60P stream.

[Bryant Joseph]

so, to clarify,

I could not shoot 24PN then use firewire 400 to transfer it to a computer for editing in Final cut 5?

and with 24PA, do I treat it any differently than I would just 24p on the XL2? as far as capture settings, timeline options, etc.?

[Michael Sacci]

[Sam Waldorf] “I could not shoot 24PN then use firewire 400 to transfer it to a computer for editing in Final cut 5? “

Sure you could, FCP it was called P2 import (if I remember right) these clips are true 23.98 so there is no extra frames to remove.

[Sam Waldorf] “and with 24PA, do I treat it any differently than I would just 24p on the XL2? as far as capture settings, timeline options, etc.?”
24pA is the scheme that panasonic uses in an interlace environment and on ingest remove this pull down to once again give you 29.98 progressive frames. Panasonic gives you the option of pA on 1080i and 480i.

[David Linstrom]

Greetings
I’m shooting a HVX200 to intercut with a Varicam project. What flavor of 24 should I use so that the HVX footage will drop into the Varicam timeline on FCP?

Thanks
Dave Linstrom

dlinstrom

[Michael Sacci]

Either one would work, on ingest they both come in as 23.98P. The difference is 24pN doesn’t record the redundant frames so you get move time on the card. When you shot 24P the camera records 60 frames per sec (59.94) but 26 are duplicate frames that are removed when you bring them into FCP, which is what is going on which the tape shot with the varicam.