1080 24p and 1080i 24p … one more time please?

[Barry Green]

The HPX500 shoots 1080p. End of story, it absolutely positively shoots progressive 1080p.

It gets recorded in the interlaced data stream of 1080i, but then again so does everything else (except HDCAM 24pSf, which is actually 1080p recorded in an interlaced data stream but without a pulldown frame).

Short answer: it’s a non-issue. Especially if you use FCP: record 1080/24pA, FCP will remove the pulldown frame when you import the footage and you’ll have native 1080/24p on your timeline.

—————–
Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available on ebay and at Amazon (https://www.fiftv.com/db)

[Accountneedsrealnameupdate]

1080i 24P or 1080i 30P, sometimes called 24/30P over 60i is what’s known as segmented frame and it is true progressive data but recorded into an interlaced stream. Basically, one full progressive frame is split into two fields for recording then reassembled in post to re-create the original full frame. As far as I know, this technique was developed way back in the old days, back when people still used tape. Back when tape decks offered two choices, 720 60P or 1080 60i. Just as the Varicam has to record everything at 60 fps because that is all the tapedeck will allow, (there is no PN setting on the Varicam), the 1080 decks can only record interlaced, so segmented frame was developed as a way to record 1080 progressive data in an interlaced format. As a result, this is the format the NLE’s are expecting, so even though you could write a true progressive frame to a P2 card, not many things would know what to do with it. Panasonic implemented the segmented frame technique so the data would be more widely compatible downstream. The important thing is that segmented frame is true progressive, and this, by the way, is the same way the Sony F900 Cinealta works.

As for the DVCPro HD Codec, I don’t think codec’s ever go away. Once they’re in an NLE, they’re in. I cannot possibly image that in 3-4 years Avid and Apple will announce they will no longer support it and everyone has to go throw their varicams in the river. Yes, the AVC-I codec is one of all time biggest improvements in recording formats and ranks right up there with sliced bread and ice cream, but it’s not being offered in the HPX500, at least not yet. If you look at the CCD block and DSP in the camera, I doubt that the AVC-I 100 mbit codec would really improve the MTF of that camera. The 50 mbit flavor would offer more recording time, but it’s a four-slot camera, so you already have over an hour of 1080P on 4-16gig cards, and over two hours when the 32 gig cards come out sometime in late 2009. (Sorry guys, but I was at NAB 2006 when you announced 16 gig cards ‘by the end of the year’).

[Gary Adcock]

[Barry Green] “The HPX500 shoots 1080p. End of story, it absolutely positively shoots progressive 1080p.
It gets recorded in the interlaced data stream of 1080i, but then again so does everything else (except HDCAM 24pSf, which is actually 1080p recorded in an interlaced data stream but without a pulldown frame).”

By Definition that is 1080 Psf,
no 1080 camera captures true progressive frames internally to tape- The default format for 1080 is called a progressive segmented frame.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Chris Baldwin]

Thanks guys!

Its great to cut through the marketing hype and counter hype.

Ok so I’m even more convinced of the HPX500. But two last questions.

1st, why are both the hvx200 and the HPX500 able to shoot the 720p formats not over 60i, but they can’t shoot the 1080p formats in “native” frame rates? Why is there no 1080 24pn?

2nd, Why can the HPX3000 shoot this form of 1080 24pn? The brochure from Panny looks like it can shoot DVCPRO100 HD at 1080 24pn. Can it only do this with the new codec not DVCPRO100? ANd if it can do the 10080 24pn in dvcpro100 why can’t the 200 and 500?

Thanks!

Chris Baldwin
Shoulder High Productions
Media of the World; For the World!
https://www.shoulderhigh.com
newsletters@shoulderhigh.com

[Gary Adcock]

[Chris Baldwin] “1st, why are both the hvx200 and the HPX500 able to shoot the 720p formats not over 60i, but they can’t shoot the 1080p formats in “native” frame rates? Why is there no 1080 24pn?”

the SMPTE format for 720 is always progressive, there is no interlace in the 720 spec.

For 1080 delivery all of the Mfg’s are using pretty much the same technology for producing 24p in SD, and since the format for 1080 delivery is specified as a progressive segmented frame, PsF and is actually never a true progressive, it is very simple to use the same basic methodology for extracting progressive content from interlaced materials.

It is a difference in the formats and the camera companies are suppling content based on the specification. It is my understanding that there is not a SMPTE specification for delivery of anything other than interlace or PsF files in the 1920 x1080 format.

“2nd, Why can the HPX3000 shoot this form of 1080 24pn? “

it will still be delivering in the 1080 Psf format, but because it is the 3rd Gen of the P2 HD camera systems and the highest end one at that, you would want it to have features that no other camera has, eh?

Since Sony does not record 1080 24sf content with any redundant frames, Panasonic has chosen that model for their top of the line P2 camera system would be my guess.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows