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FCP workflow and tutorial for narrative work?
I have been using FCP for a while but have never done any long form project on it. But I have recently been asked to edit a feature film with several hours of footage and I was wondering if there are any video, DVD or books which focus on FCP for narrative work? I guess the main difference will be media management and workflow.
Also, the feature has several green screen shots which I will have to edit before compositing work is done. But the thing is the green screen material is in DPX format. What would be the best workflow to edit this material?Thanks.
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19 Replies
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I don’t have much to offer, but I can say that post will be much more manageable if you break the project up into segments instead or working in one big 60 or 90 minute timeline. Even a 22 minute project I did for someone was broken up into 4-6 minute segments
Once you plan what you want to include in the segments, it’s sorta like planning a bunch of short form projects.
That’s been my experience, at least. Hope that helps a bit.
Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com -
Thanks. Any tips on the DPX workflow issue?
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Should I post the question on the FCP Basics forum? I didn’t think it was a basic question but as I’m not getting any replies here.
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Oh, I just thought or something!
I think Shane Ross’s Getting Organized in Final Cut Pro DVD talks about getting organized for narrative work.
https://store.creativecow.net/p/63/getting_organized_in_final_cut_pro
Sorry, I have no answer to the DPX question though. I don’t even know what that is :/
Rob Grauert, Jr.
http://www.robgrauert.com
command-r.tumblr.com -
Hi Adam,
Long form narrative films are typically broken up into “reels.” Each reel corresponds to 2000 feet of 35 mm film (roughly 20 minutes of screen time). Although “reel breaks” are becoming less relevant, you still need to think about them if your project might get theatrical distribution. The first reel is usually shorter, to allow for leaders that might tacked on the reel.
Regardless of how your movie is shown, working in reels is still a useful organizational system. In my experience, this is how post production folk are expecting to receive material (not to mention sound designers and composers). All editors work differently, but I would typically start assembling scenes as the rushes arrive, and then start compiling everything into reels once the shoot is over.
As for DPX files, have you checked out GlueTools?
https://www.gluetools.com/products_dpx.html
I haven’t tried it myself, but it might be what you are looking for. The other option is to convert the files to match the codec and resolution of your main footage. I would probably also put a per-frame burn in on the converted footage, to show the source file name of the DPX frames. This will make it easier to identify the source files and do the media breakouts for the VFX people.
Typically, once the film is locked for time, you would sit down with the director, producer and VFX lead and do a spotting session to identify all the effects and discuss the creative objectives of each shot.
To keep things organized, each VFX shot should get a unique name and text overlay in the FCP timeline. In the past, the VFX company has given me an empty hard drive, on which I’ll make a folder for each shot. In each folder, I would put the source DPX files that correspond exactly to the length used in the locked project (with handles, if requested). It also helps to start a spreadsheet to track all the VFX shots, where you can list the timeline in-outs, source file in-outs, source media file name, notes, etc…
Hope this helps,
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hey Thanks for the extensive reply Matt! Truly appreciated.
Yeah, I have heard of GlueTools. But honestly, at $600 it’s not an investment I’m sure I want to make, specially that I’m almost never asked to work with DPX. But I think this is the only option if I want to work with DPX in FCP right?
Besides of course converting it to a QT flavor. But I’m not sure that would be good for the VFX, since DPX is uncompressed. So I’m not sure they would like to receive ProRes for example. Or what would be the best format to convert the DPX to in order to edit in FCP?The thing is the DPX files were actually converted from Cineform files. So the original files were Cineform. So I could also work with the original Cineform files in FCP, if FCP would accept that. But I heard FCP doesn’t recognize the Cineform files as 10 bit for some reason. Have you worked with Cineform files in FCP?
Then there’s the problem with Color. Even if FCP accepts the Cineform and recognizes it as 10 bit, Apple Color will not. So how do I do to grade it in Color? This is why the DPX may make more sense. But for DPX I will also need a RAID etc and GlueTools.
I could of course try to do some sort of offline workflow. Convert the footage to some QT for editing, send the original to the VFX but when it’s sent back to FCP after FX is done it will come in DPX (or TIFF) and I have the same problem. I need GlueTools and a RAID. Man, I’m on a jam here. 🙁
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No problem Adam, I’m happy to help.
I have used the a free cineform enabler for FCP, but only for a very short project. IMHO, I think it would only make sense if your whole project is going to be edited in Cineform. I’m not sure about the 10 bit issue you describe. You should check their documentation or try contact their tech support.
[Adam Claude Jones] “I could of course try to do some sort of offline workflow. Convert the footage to some QT for editing, send the original to the VFX but when it’s sent back to FCP after FX is done it will come in DPX (or TIFF) and I have the same problem. I need GlueTools and a RAID. Man, I’m on a jam here. :(“
I don’t think you are in a jam here! I think you are getting too caught up in worrying about image fidelity right now. There is no reason to edit at “full quality” at the moment. Keep your cineform files in a protected place on your HD. Convert the footage and edit away. You’ll have a much more reliable editing experience when you aren’t mixing and matching resolutions and codecs.
Is there any reason your final VFX clips couldn’t be delivered as quicktime files? You could ask for 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, which you could then use natively in FCP or convert as needed (to ProRes, for example). Any PC or Mac with quicktime should support this codec. You will need a very fast hard drive to play these back though.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Thanks again Matt.
So you think offline is the way to go here?
What format do you advice me to convert the DPX to? ProRes?
I’m just a bit nervous because I have never done offline before because this is my first long form project. Specially given DPX sequences don’t really have time code, so how will I go about conforming the shots later, if not manually?About the final VFX clips being delivered as quicktime files, the only reason would be quality and also practicability. VFX shots are normally rendered as image sequences because if you need to re-render something or add more at the head or tail, it’s just a matter of re-rendering the needed frames. While if you render the finished shots as video clips you would need to re-render the whole clip. It’s just the usual way of doing it in the VFX industry, going with image sequences. The other reason is quality. Converting the DPX to ProRes for example would take a hit in quality.
But when you say to render it to 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, I think you mean the Apple Animation codec?
Yes, the hard drive speed need is insane for those, but it may be a viable option.Thanks once more.
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[Adam Claude Jones] “will I go about conforming the shots later, if not manually?”
When I’ve worked as an assistant editor, prepping shows for VFX work, I put text overlays in the timeline to mark every shot that is designated to have effects work. When I receive the completed work back, the media names match the text overlays exactly and the clips are already to length (possibly with handles). So, yes, conforming is a manual process, but a quick one. Inserting shots manually, on a separate track, also lets me A/B the material for the director and/or producer, which is often asked for.
If you are really nervous about the process, I suggest you try to find an experienced feature assistant in your area who’ll let you shadow them and teach you the process. That is how I got trained.
[Adam Claude Jones] “About the final VFX clips being delivered as quicktime files, the only reason would be quality and also practicability.”
I get what you are saying, but unless you are using GlueTools, FCP is quicktime based and you’ll have to convert your media to a format that plays nice with the rest of your timeline.
[Adam Claude Jones] “VFX shots are normally rendered as image sequences because if you need to re-render something or add more at the head or tail, it’s just a matter of re-rendering the needed frames.”
I guess this is a matter of philosophy and approach, but my preference is that when revisions are called on a shot, the VFX artist makes an entirely new version (with a new version number), and delivers the full frame range. I know some facilities don’t work this way … but I find it is the least error prone. Of course, there are downsides to this approach.
[Adam Claude Jones] “But when you say to render it to 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, I think you mean the Apple Animation codec?”
I mean the “10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 codec.” Check the codec list in FCP and quicktime, it’s in there! Another high quality option that people like is ProRess 4444 (which I haven’t personally tried yet). The animation codec is 8 bit RGB, and isn’t really a good choice anymore, IMHO.
But there is no reason why you can’t get DPX image sequences delivered to you, and then convert them to the codec of your choice.
If you have to hand off the project to another facility for an online or DI or whatever, you can give them an HD with folders of the original DPX files, so they use the highest quality source in the conform.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Matt Lyon] “So, yes, conforming is a manual process, but a quick one. Inserting shots manually, on a separate track, also lets me A/B the material for the director and/or producer, which is often asked for.”
Well, given that the majority of the project is green screen plates this will be almost like re-trimming the whole project then. What if I just re-connect the media and point FCP to the folder where the finished shots are contained and these shots are exactly the same name as the untouched green screen clips on the timeline? FCP would automatically replace them with all transitions and cuts in the right places etc, no? Or it would not work because of the fact they are the same name but a different format? At least I don’t think FCP would look at that. Just the path and name. But I may be wrong.
So I could for example convert the DPX to ProRes or any QT format for easy editing and name them the same as the DPX source. Then send the DPX to compositing and when FX is finished, output with the same name to a DPX sequence. Then convert the DPX finished shots to uncompressed 10 bit QT and put these finished shots in a folder and re-connect the media in FCP to this folder and have it replace all the unfinished ProRes clips with the finished Uncompressed 10 bit finished clips. Is this a sound workflow here? By having the finished shots output to DPX, in case something needs to be worked on later, VFX could still only re-render the needed frames and a new conversion to uncompressed 10 bit QT of the whole shot or just what is different could be done and have it cut in the FCP timeline to add what’s missing in case it was just a matter of the shot needed to be longer or start earlier. This would avoid a lot of re-rendering etc, which can take a lot of time depending on how complex the VFX shot is. How does that sound? Do you see any holes in this workflow?Thanks once more for your advice Matt.
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