-
FCP workflow and tutorial for narrative work?
-
Also, what type of hardware set up would I need to work with the uncompressed 10bit QT clips? Keeping in mind that I would not actually edit with uncompressed but only work with it once the finished clips came back. So it would be just basically the final approval and the color grading in Apple Color, if it makes any difference. Thanks!
-
Hi Adam, I didn’t realize the majority of the show was green screen. I understand now why you want to automate the process more.
Your process sounds like it might work in theory, but I think you should do a test on a small timeline to make sure it works in practice.
One potential gotcha: if you have split up a clip into multiple smaller pieces, that are placed in non-consecutive parts of your finished timeline, how are you going to deal with the fact that they will all have the same name? For your system to work reliably, all the plates you send to VFX need unique names.
You should be able to reconnect clips to different media that is a different format. You can even “force” reconnect to clips with a different filename or reel name. What will be a problem is if the timecode doesn’t line up. But you should do a test … round trip a couple shots through your pipeline and see what happens.
But that being said, if you are doing a long format show that is mostly DPX files, are you sure you can’t drop $600 for GlueTools? It sounds like you are trying to jump through a lot of hoops when the right tool already exists for your job. (At least in theory — I haven’t used GlueTools myself).
As for hardware — you’ll need a disk array that can handle 10 Bit Uncompressed data rates (with a healthy amount of overhead). You should be able to Google all that info. You’ll also need a 10 bit capable video I/O device and a good broadcast monitor.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
Hi Matt, yeah, the majority of it is green.
[Matt Lyon] “One potential gotcha: if you have split up a clip into multiple smaller pieces, that are placed in non-consecutive parts of your finished timeline, how are you going to deal with the fact that they will all have the same name? “
Well, when you split a clip and use different parts of it in the timeline the source points to the same clip anyway right? It’s just know what parts of it you are using where in the timeline because of what you did on the timeline, no? It would be the same. Let’s say I use the start till 00:30 and then the end from 02:30. Both point to the same clip and just use different parts of the clip based on how I have it on the timeline. The same would work with the VFX shots which would be exactly the same length and name as the low-rez clips. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?
[Matt Lyon]”For your system to work reliably, all the plates you send to VFX need unique names.”
They will have the same names as the original low-rez clips.
[Matt Lyon]” What will be a problem is if the timecode doesn’t line up.”
Aha! Yes. This may indeed be a problem since once I convert the DPX to Prores it will give it a timcode, where the DPX has not time code, just duration. Hmmm.
[Matt Lyon]”But that being said, if you are doing a long format show that is mostly DPX files, are you sure you can’t drop $600 for GlueTools? It sounds like you are trying to jump through a lot of hoops when the right tool already exists for your job. (At least in theory — I haven’t used GlueTools myself).”
Well, the problem is not just Gluetools. It’s that to have an enjoyable experience editing DPX I would have to have a super machine, a super RAID etc. It would mean invest on Gluetools, a new Mac Pro or upgrade mine and a super RAID. As you opened my eyes, there’s no reason to worry about editing in full quality. I think this is the main problem rather than just buying Gluetools. Prores will be a much faster edit.
[Matt Lyon]”As for hardware — you’ll need a disk array that can handle 10 Bit Uncompressed data rates (with a healthy amount of overhead). You should be able to Google all that info. You’ll also need a 10 bit capable video I/O device and a good broadcast monitor.”
I already have a 10bit I/O card (Blackmagic). I will research about the RAID.
But as I was speaking to another FCP editor, he said that once the VFX shots are back, in a perfect world my edit should be locked/finished. So it’s just a matter of rendering a quick low rez version of the whole movie to watch and approve and then just render the final version out. So technically I could do without a RAID which I would only need if I wanted to playback my timeline with the 10bit uncompressed. Of course it would be limiting though.Thanks again Matt. It has been very productive to be able to count with your expertise.
-
[Adam Claude Jones] ” Let’s say I use the start till 00:30 and then the end from 02:30. Both point to the same clip and just use different parts of the clip based on how I have it on the timeline. The same would work with the VFX shots which would be exactly the same length and name as the low-rez clips.”
This is true, but typically you would not send the full clip to the VFX artist. So let say you have a five minute clip, and you are only using from 00:00-00:30 and 02:30-03:00. You would only send the two, thirty second chunks to the VFX team (maybe with 12 frame handles). Otherwise, they are comping and rendering 4 minutes of unused footage, which is expensive and a waste of time.
So in this example, you’ve sent two clips to get VFX treatment. When they come back to the edit suite, at least one of them will have a different name, and both will have timecode that starts at 00:00:00:00 (unless you embed TC into the DPX files to match your source clips, which you should be able to do — provided your tools support this).
[Adam Claude Jones] “in a perfect world my edit should be locked/finished.”
Very true indeed! Most shows are scheduled so the creative part of editing is totally finished before VFX begins. Your show should really be 100% LOCKED before you send shots for VFX work. Of course, in the real world, this isn’t always possible.
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Matt Lyon]“This is true, but typically you would not send the full clip to the VFX artist. So let say you have a five minute clip, and you are only using from 00:00-00:30 and 02:30-03:00. You would only send the two, thirty second chunks to the VFX team (maybe with 12 frame handles). Otherwise, they are comping and rendering 4 minutes of unused footage, which is expensive and a waste of time.”
Yeah, you are very right here. Could I just create a sublcip or something then?
Also, there are performance (dialog) in these green shots and most likely the whole scene won’t use the same take. It’s starting to get messy.
Would subclips with unique names work? Or what other option is there?
Also, when sending the DPX counterparts to VFX, I would either have to tell them what frames I need (by notes) or go through the trouble of separating those frames and sending only them. Wish I could automate that somehow. Actually, I wish I was back editing video. 🙂
Much simpler.[Matt Lyon]“So in this example, you’ve sent two clips to get VFX treatment. When they come back to the edit suite, at least one of them will have a different name, and both will have timecode that starts at 00:00:00:00 (unless you embed TC into the DPX files to match your source clips, which you should be able to do — provided your tools support this).”
Well, the timecode would be the problem. The DPX have no real timecode. Just duration. So starting at 00:00:00:00 is the only mark. Meaning VFX would have to comp full takes for timecode to match or clips will have to be split (subclips) so they are perfect matches and can be automatically replaced by FCP once I re-connect the media. 🙁
Hassle, hassle. Where is mini-DV? 🙂Thanks again Matt.
-
[Adam Claude Jones] “Wish I could automate that somehow. Actually, I wish I was back editing video. 🙂
Much simpler.”Ha ha, I hear you 🙂 I get where you are coming from in wanting to automate the process (which I’m all for, when appropriate). But bear in mind your job here is NOT to make things simple for editorial. It is to makes things as clear as possibly for the VFX people, so they don’t waste any resources. You need to be crazy meticulous and totally detail oriented.
Prepping a show for handoff to VFX can take hours or DAYS, depending on the complexity of the work and the number of VFX shots.
[Adam Claude Jones] “Also, when sending the DPX counterparts to VFX, I would either have to tell them what frames I need (by notes) or go through the trouble of separating those frames and sending only them.”
Yes to both! You should be making detailed spreadsheets, that note every VFX shots, organized by reel, with timeline In/Out, source media In/Out, source media name, source media reel, director’s notes, and any other relevant info. (This is typically the assistant editor’s job — actually, everything I’m describing in this post is).
And again, each VFX shot should be given a unique name (usually via text overlay slug in the timeline). You would create a corresponding folder on your delivery hard-drive, and place JUST the separated frames for that shot in it (with handles, if requested). The way you name these shots would be based on some agreed upon convention, for example, the first VFX shot in the show might be:
ABC_001_0010
then the second shot would be:
ABC_001_0020
Where ‘ABC’ is a short form name of the movie, ‘001’ is the reel number and ‘0010’ is the shot number. These shot numbers have no correlation to the name of your source media. Notice how I’m skipping numbers, in case you miss a shot and need to go back to add one. The “in between” shot would be named “0015.”
You should also be sending reference quicktimes, with burn in timecode and the VFX name overlays, for every reel, so the VFX artists can see their shots in context.
You’ll have to forgive me for probably glossing over large parts of the process, but there is simply too much to write! Your best way to learn more would be by talking in person to other editors who’ve done VFX heavy shows.
[Adam Claude Jones] “The DPX have no real timecode.”
I can’t claim to have a lot of experience using DPX, but my understanding is you can store timecode info in the metadata.
Anyway, this is just one way of doing things, YMMV!
Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto -
[Matt Lyon]“And again, each VFX shot should be given a unique name (usually via text overlay slug in the timeline). You would create a corresponding folder on your delivery hard-drive, and place JUST the separated frames for that shot in it (with handles, if requested). The way you name these shots would be based on some agreed upon convention…”
That sounds good. But just one thing I’m still confused about.
If each VFX shot has to be given an unique name, but FCP links the shots to the original media, how will FCP replace these shots aromatically once I point it to the new folder containing the now finished VFX shots to re-connect to the media? The unique names of the VFX shots won’t match the original file, which is the raw footage before the cutting.
Like if I use 00:00-00:30 from take1 and then 04:00-04:30 of the same take1 and name the 2 shots VFX1 and VFX1B and send just these frames to VFX, how will FCP know where to put the clips once I re-connect the media? It will not longer point to Take1 but to VFX1 and VFX1B whihc FCP has no idea about. Do you know what I mean?[Matt Lyon]“You’ll have to forgive me for probably glossing over large parts of the process, but there is simply too much to write! ”
Matt, you are helping a ton here and I’m extremely thankful for it.
-
I’ve addressed your DPX question and workflow in a later post that you sent. It’s entirely do-able using Color and FCP reconnect.
I do similar things.Meanwhile, what’s the source of the Cineform files?
———————————–
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
Hi Neil. Yes, I saw and already replied.
I’m not entirely sure what is the source of the Cineform files but I guess it came from the camera that way?
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up