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Color management and rendering: for me… a puzzle.
I have a calibrated LCD with its icm profile.
I’m editing a multicam project where I used
three different cameras that gave three different
color rendition of the same stage.I understand that, before starting to do color correction
by eyes, one should be sure he is seeing the correct
colors so, with Vegas (10e) I set the Preview Device
(Win Secondary display) to use the icm file created
by my calibration device.But…
for two of the three cams I can see a great difference between
the colors of the preview and those in the “external display” but
when I render the project the colors I get in the output are those of the preview window.So my question is: what should I look to color correct a clip?
The preview window inside the GUI of Veg. or the “external device”?If the answer is: “the first”, then what is the purpose of a color corrected preview on the ext disp?
And more: wouldn’t be useful being able to switch the color correction on and off for the preview window when we are in a single disply setting?
I hope it’s just me that I’m confused and that there is a way out.
Thanks for listening.
fabio
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14 Replies
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Unless you are calibrating your external monitor with a hardware calibrator like a Spyder 3 or equivalent, just loading an ICM file is not enough (although it’s better than not loading it). If you’re serious about color correcting you need to invest in a hardware calibrator. They’re not that expensive.
Burn a disc and check the colors on real TV. Which does it look closer to? (your preview or external monitor) That’s the real test since no one but you will be seeing in on your PC preview monitor.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks for your answer.
For me, the odd thing in all this is that I should “check with a TV set” that is probably never been calibrated!
Anyway, my goal is, at least, to match the colors among cameras so I will use my eyes with the preview on the “secondary windos display” that, in my case, is the same single monitor I have (a Formac Gallery 2010 calibrated with an Eye one hardware device so the differnt colors should be quite balanced).
To get the correct white balance, some times ago I thought to invest in a reference white/gray target but I know it’s not always enough because the light conditions can change with different framing o during the recording so, I will never see the end of this.
Thanks.
fabio
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[fabio mereghetti] “For me, the odd thing in all this is that I should “check with a TV set” that is probably never been calibrated!”
Yes, for two reasons: (1) This is how your customer will view your work (on a uncalibrated TV) and (2) because you said the cameras looked the same on one monitor and different from each other on another. If they look the same on TV then you can also trust the monitor that they look the same on. If they look different, then something strange is going on with your calibrated preview monitor.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
You will agree that an uncalibrated TV is, by definition, unreliable so, I wouldn’t bother using “it” as a target. I can only see the white reference target as a way to get the right white balance.
But now let’s move on a bit.
I enjoyed watching the tutorials on the Sony site especially those about the various way to read what’s there in your video: vectorscopes, waveforms, etc. and I will surely watch them again to better understand them and to try and make them more friendly for me.
Now I have one doubt though: are all those tools showing me the values I see on the UI preview window (unmanaged) or those I can see on the “preview device” (secondary windows display – managed)?
Yes, I understand, probably none of them but just those that are in the file but, if this is correct, how can I possibly get a “real” color rendition (if such a thing exists…)? Just by numbers?
Thanks again.
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[fabio mereghetti] “Now I have one doubt though: are all those tools showing me the values I see on the UI preview window (unmanaged) or those I can see on the “preview device” (secondary windows display – managed)?”
Neither. They are showing you the true readings from the video signal independent of any monitor (i.e., the same signal that’s being sent to the monitor regardless of how the monitor is adjusted to show it).
[fabio mereghetti] ” how can I possibly get a “real” color rendition (if such a thing exists…)? Just by numbers?”
It’s like a pilot flying by instruments. You need to learn to trust your instruments but you also need to use visual references. The trick is to get your monitor to show the same as the scopes. You said you calibrated your monitor with an Eye One but then you said you loaded an ICM profile into Vegas. You probably shouldn’t be doing both. You should let the Eye One load the correct video profile for your monitor (at least that’s how my Spyder 3 works). Have you tried calibrating both monitors with the Eye One so that the preview matches the external monitor.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
John Rofrano“Have you tried calibrating both monitors”
I have a single monitor set up.
So the “preview device” I use while working is the same display where the Vegas UI is. I just use the “video preview on external monitor” button to switch between the UI and the preview.
Than I check the rendered output on an LCD TV playing the videos with SageTV media center.
Reading the help, I didn’t really understand if I should choose my monitor color profile or an sRGB or what else. But I’ll try to judge by eyes looking at my display and the TV set at once.
Please let me check a thing with you:
am I correct to say that, in a multicam editing with VASST Ultimate, the track fx I apply to the single cams isn’t applyed when I create the master track?
I’m asking it because I spent time and sweat trying to match color and brightness of three cams to lately understend that I should have applyed the corrections at event or media level!
Thanks.
fabio
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[fabio mereghetti] “am I correct to say that, in a multicam editing with VASST Ultimate, the track fx I apply to the single cams isn’t applyed when I create the master track?”
That’s correct. It would be impossible to combine the FX from multiple tracks into one track because they now affect all of the events on that single track in the same way. Color correction should be performed on the media so that no matter where the media is used, it is correct.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Do you know of a quick way to copy the settings from a track-fx to the event-fx for all the events in that track?
I can only think to save them as presets and then apply them manually to each event.
Thank you again.
fabio
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Does the Vegas built-in multicamera editing work the same?
Is there a way to apply (and edit) the same fx settings to multiple events at once?
Thanks.
fabio
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[fabio mereghetti] “Do you know of a quick way to copy the settings from a track-fx to the event-fx for all the events in that track?
I can only think to save them as presets and then apply them manually to each event.”
That is the only way I can think of as well.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com
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