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Changing My Paradigm
I have one particular project paradigm for which I would feel most indebted and grateful if someone could help me translate into an equivalent process in Vegas.
If you can indulge this lengthy (sorry) description of a frequent situation I face with projects and then advise me as to how to adjust my thinking in Vegas you would be solving my biggest hurdle to date in my learning curve. I originally thought “project nesting” might be the key to this, but now I’m not so sure (read on).
So, thanks in advance, and picture this scenario, if you would please:
Suppose I have five 30-second spots for the same client, and it’s possible that the client might want to see alternate versions of any or all of the spots.
In working on “Spot #1”, I develop a sequence of events for the last ten seconds that I know will be the foundation for the ending of the remaining four spots. For example, a three-second video clip, dissolving to another three-second clip having two animated graphic elements composed over the top of it, then dissolving to a final animated logo/phone number/URL scene.
What I originally planned on/hoped I could do with Vegas would be to make each 30-second spot its own project (read: “timeline”, with each starting at 0:00). I then take the selection tool, rectangle-select everything that makes up the last ten seconds of Spot #1, do a “copy”, then start a new project (i.e., timeline) called “Spot #2” and paste those elements onto the timeline. From there, I would build the different front half for Spot #2, and use the pasted back half but swap out a different first video clip, change the inpoint/outpoints of the second video clip, reposition the two graphic elements composed over the top of it but keeping everything else the same, and cue the end graphic ten frames later than Spot #1.
Then, I would use the above thinking to do build the other five spots. The key component being this: to copy chunks of multiple events tied and related to each other– with their attributes, with their cue points, with their animated composited elements– and paste them intact into another spot such that I could then discreetly manipulate any of those events and not affect any other spot that had a similar-but-not-exactly-the-same sequence of events.
I made an initial inquiry about this a few months back, and I was advised to get familiar with “project nesting”. When I watched a demo of that process, I was left with the understanding (misunderstanding?) that if you change the original project that gets nested those changes show up everywhere else it occurs (and vice versa, I think?), which would leave me just chasing my tail, if so.
I’m anticipating now that project nesting is not what would solve what I’m describing. The only other solution that occurs to me with my still-neophyte knowledge of Vegas is to have a single timeline piled with all my spots and all their various versions. That would give me back the ability to cut and paste (and then tweak those pieces) between different spots, but it seems like it would be a nightmare to have so many different things on a single timeline, with keyframes all over the place that could really easily get inadvertantly adjusted or moved if I wind up trying to consolidate things into separate projects later by getting rid of things I don’t need anymore and moving things around en masse.
So… if someone understands what I’m trying to resolve in my head maybe you can give me an idea of the best way to get back on my yellow brick road. So far, I’ve just been all alone with the Scarecrow and the Cowardly Lion heading into the dark forest of my head on this topic.
THANK YOU,
–Kelly
ps: I have a feeling Mike Kujbida will understand what I’m getting at, and yes, harp away, but I’m still just trying to retrain my thinking and earn while I learn…
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10 Replies
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Kelly, I know exactly what you’re talking about because I’m in the middle of doing the same thing and, in a roundabout way, nesting was my solution.
In my case, it’s a series of 15 sec. spots for the local cable company.
The 5 sec. ending tag and music bed are the same throughout all the spots.
What I did was to create the tag first, add the music and save this as promo.veg
When I was ready to do spot #1, I opened up promo.veg, immediately re-saved it as spot-one.veg, added the necessary assets, adjusted the music bed as needed and saved it again.
My ending tag is flexible enough so that if I needed it to stay up for only 4 sec., I could adjust it accordingly by fading the end of it earlier.
Does this help you? -
Kelly, two things I forgot to mention.
When I created the promo tag, I started the video portion of it at the 10 sec. mark so that I had room for the rest of the assets.
Even though my description isn’t a nested project, it easily could be by assembling the footage and then importing and adding the promo veg file after I was done creating the rest of it. -
Mike: What you describe about making a “template”.veg from which you make each similar spot is exactly what I’ve been doing, but I’ve already run into enough instances where I’ve painted myself into a corner with separate spots being in separate .vegs and being “locked out” of cutting and pasting. I feel like I’m looking at my finished spots through a chain-link fence; ALL I have to do is copy that chunk out of that spot and paste it into this spot, change a few things and I’m done. Instead, so far all I can think to do is open that other VEG, write down a million attributes and ins/outs for all the clips and try to rebuild that section in the other VEG.
I still don’t have confidence that “nesting” will do what I’m asking, unless I’m misunderstanding– I thought if you nest a project into another, then make changes on that nest, it’ll change it on the project from which the nest was made, no? The “chasing my tail” comment from earlier.
What I need is to be able to copy whole chunks of several events– with all their attributes, timings, keyframes– paste them into another spot, then be able to make adjustments on what was just copied (leaving the original thing I copied untouched).
I have one client in particular for whom this ability has saved my butt many times… I’ll have five or six spots all finished, then he’ll call and say, “Okay, my client has some new changes: Take the last four scenes from spot #6 and make that the new ending for spots #1 and #2, except change what the graphic overlay says for spot #1 to read “_____” and for spot #2 to read “_____”.
It seems like with the method I’ve been using so far (like you described) I’d be hosed trying to do that, and if I tried to achieve it by nesting I’d screw up my spot #6 by making the changes in spots #1 and #2.
Am I still thinking ignorantly about achieving this in Vegas? I can’t be the only person who’s run into this scenario before.
I welcome any and all help I can get to find a solution to this. It’s the one thing that really makes me nervous about “getting” Vegas and not feeling so intimidated by it.
THANK YOU!
–Kelly
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Sounds like you want .veg files like this:
Foo1.veg: A X(1)
Foo2.veg: B X(2)
Foo3.veg: C X(3)
Foo4.veg: D X(4)
…where A, B, C, D are different and X(n) are variations of X. I’d start with X and save it (your “base” version). For each Foo?.veg, make a copy of X and name it accordingly [X(?).veg]. Make your changes and nest that version into Foo?.veg.
You could probably “Add as Takes” various X(?).veg into each Foo?.veg to see how the variations would play out.
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Tyson: So, with your advice is it sounding like my thinking is sound in having each different spot its own VEG?
Can you explain “Foo”? I don’t know what that is…
And, I’ll have to look into what “Add as take” is all about. Haven’t used that before, and if you’re inclined to provide a quick explanation that would be swell.
Thank you,
–Kelly
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Foo comes from Foobar (fubar) … is the project name. E.g., Project_v#
which would be used:
Project_v1.veg: A X(1)
Project_v2.veg: B X(2)
Project_v3.veg: C X(3)
Project_v4.veg: D X(4)1. Create X(base).veg
for each Project_v#.veg:
2. Copy X(base).veg to X(?).veg [or whatever naming schema you’d like)3. Edit X(?).veg
4. Create Project_v#.veg [or copy it from prior version]
5. Edit Project_v#.veg
6. Nest (insert) X(?).veg into Project_v#.veg
If all X(?).veg are the same length [or more accurately, swappable…] then
7. Add successive X(?).veg into Project_v#.veg as Takes
Drag it to the Media Pool, select it, R-Click and drag it on top of the desired
media, select Add as Takes from the popup menu.To switch between Takes:
a. R-Click to select the media
b. from the popup menu choose Take
c. and then the Take you want—–
You’ll have a Project_V#.veg files for each major variation (A, B, C, D, …)
Each Project_v#.veg file will have 1 (or more) variations of the ending X(?).veg nested within. -
Another Vegas user asked if I’d tried copying from one VEG and pasting into another VEG via another instance of Vegas (and now I think I recall this from several months ago).
I just tested that and it did exactly what I’m trying to do (except that it didn’t paste the VideoFX attributes… anyone know why?).
Anyway, big hurdle solved if this continues to work like it seems like it might…
–Kelly
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[Kelly Griffin] “I just tested that and it did exactly what I’m trying to do (except that it didn’t paste the VideoFX attributes… anyone know why?).”
I’ve done that before and the only thing that doesn’t get pasted are Track Motion keyframes.
What video FX are you using? -
It was a “Brightness/Contrast” FX.
–Kelly
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How about this option:
Have *one project* for all spots. Put all common content on its own track(s) (maybe within a track group). Then, for each spot, define track(s) (maybe within a track group) for the content that is specific to that spot only.
An easy way to do this is to create the first spot, making sure to use a separate track or track group for that any content that will be used in multiple spots. Then, for each subsequent spot, simply disable the tracks/track groups with content that is not pertinent to the current spot.
Then, to render spot ‘N’ (e.g. 1, 2, etc.):
-Make sure the common-content tracks/track groups are enabled,
-Enable spot N’s spot-specific track/track group,
-Disable all other spot-specific tracks/track groups
-Render the fileIn the future, to build another spot for this series, simply add new spot-specific track(s)/track group(s) & render with the above steps.
Let me know if this doesn’t make sense & I’ll clarify. It’s a fairly simple concept.
Hope this helps,
Jerry
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