Wes Thom
Forum Replies Created
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[Patrick Donegan] “… so when I here the refrigerator kick on, I also here the UPS kick on – doing something.
Maybe just activating for a blackout, but mostly likely a temp surge for a brown out.”First, if that refrigerator creates a brownout, then a home has wiring problems. In most cases, that defect is trivial. In rare cases, it indicates a serious human safety issue.
Second, if a refrigerator creates a brownout, then incandescent bulbs are dimming significantly.
Third, bulbs must dim to less than 40% intensity before causing any problem for any properly designed computer.
Fourth, a UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. Therefore noise (ie a single digit voltage spike) can cause a UPS to switch-over to batteries. That switch-over (and resulting noise) need not only happen during a brownout or blackout. But again, if it was from a brownout, then lights are also dimming significantly. An unacceptable condition often traceable to household wiring problems.
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[Craig Alan] “Is there any disadvantage to plugging the UPS into a surge protector multi-outlet?”
‘Whole house’ protector does 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection (per an IEEE Standard). That means maybe another 0.2% of protection by a multi-outlet protector. It supplements protection IF a ‘whole house’ solution is implemented. Details are too complex to discuss here.
Downside is using it without that ‘whole house’ solution. For example, that power strip can actually compromise protection inside attached appliances (computer or UPS). In rare cases, it can cause a fire.
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[Craig Alan] “What type of protector would that be?”
Established was what a UPS does. Adjacent protectors (power strip or UPS) do not provide effective protection from typically destructive surges. Effective protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Each protection layer is defined by ‘protection’ – earth ground.
Incoming TV cable needs no protector. A hardwire connects a cable direct to earthing electrodes. Hardwire connects via this ground block.
https://files.cablewholesale.com/hires/200-278.jpg
Protection is defined by quality of and connection to earth ground. Which means a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot, no sharp bends) connection to electrodes. No protector required.A surge current connects low impedance to earth; need not enter a building; does not threaten household appliances.
Telephone cannot make a direct connection. So a telco installs (for free) a ‘whole house’ protector. Also only as effective as its earth ground. Protector in this NID ( https://www.citynet.net/page.cfm?mypage=HowtobackfeedtheDigitalPhoneService ) also must connect low impedance (ie no splices) to that same electrode. Telco protector is only doing what an above hardwire would do better. That is what an effective protector does. It is a connecting device – does not actually do protection.
Most common source of destructive surges is AC mains. These wires are not required to have protection. Only a homeowner decides to earth each incoming AC wire. Like telephone, the AC hot wires cannot connect directly to earth. So a ‘whole house’ protector (installed in a breaker box or behind an electric meter) makes that connection.
‘Whole house’ protectors are provided by companies known for integrity. These include Leviton, General Electric, Syscom, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Intermatic, Delta, Square D, ABB, Ditek, and Siemens. A Cutler-Hammer protector sells in both Lowes and Home Depot for about $50.
Connecting is what a protector must do during each surge. Numbers such as hundreds of thousands of joules and impedance apply. ‘Art’ of protection is single point earth ground. Every incoming wire must make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground. Earthing – an ‘art’ – determines protection during each surge.
Further discussion may be needed. But in many cases, multiple 10 foot electrodes, found in most homes and selling in Lowes and Home Depot for $11, may be sufficient. Those electrodes do protection. This is about protection during each surge.
A typical lightning strike may be 20,000 amps. A protector must not fail after many lightning strikes. So a minimal ‘whole house’ protector is 50,000 amps. This number defines a protector’s life expectancy over many surges.
A lightning rod means a direct lightning strike need not connect to earth destructively via a structure. A ‘whole house’ protection system means a direct lightning strike need not connect to earth destructively via any interior household appliances. Both solutions are only as effective as the key component – earth ground.
BTW, above is only your ‘secondary’ protection layer. Each layer of protection is only defined by what absorbs energy – earth ground. A picture demonstrates what to inspect in your ‘primary’ protection layer:
https://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html -
[Craig Alan] “What you are saying is that it offers no protection against surges.”
First, Isobar does claim to protect from a type of surge that is typically made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. Isobar (and equivalents) do something useful (supplementary) if a ‘whole house’ solution is also implemented. It does what it says it will do.
For example, spec number defines 2350 joules. That means it may absorb 780 joules and never more than 1580 joules. Protection is what specs define.
Phrase ‘no protection’ is subjective. A subjective conclusion (without facts and spec numbers) is illogical; is emotional. Either a conclusion is based in facts and perspective (ie numbers). Or that conclusion is based in emotion (ie speculation or absolutes). Isobar only does protection it says it does.
To be useful, a properly earthed ‘whole house’ solution also must exist.
Second, electrical panel must already be grounded – as required by codes for human protection. Panel can be grounded and still transistor protection may not exist. Since some wires obviously pass through without a low impedance connection to earth.
AC electric is three incoming wires – two hots and a neutral. Only neutral is hardwired to earth ground – for human protection. Transistor protection is compromised if any one wire does not connect low impedance to earth. Some wires that must connect to earth ground can only connect via a protector.
Effective protection is about how every incoming wire connects low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth.
Third, peripheral features such as total output power, alarms, and remote shutdown make a UPS unique. For example, a period of no output power exists when a UPS switches between AC electric and battery. This switchover time must be short enough so that a computer’s power supply can provide uninterrupted DC voltages when no AC incoming UPS power exists. This necessary functions (like so many others) is a UPS standard. IOW a UPS sells like a commodity. Standard functions (ie switchover time) exist in all.
Peripheral features (ie if it can shutdown a Mac, how many AC receptacles are provided, etc) makes that commodity unique (just like some apples are red and others are green).
Any UPS (a commodity) will do as long as its peripheral functions provide your unique requirements.
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> What I have read, and I have no emotional need to buy one type or another, just want to get something that will help and be done with it, is that Active PFC power supplies play better with a pure sine wave power supply and iMacs use Active PFC power supplies.
Only active Power Factor Correction (PFC) that is problematic well exceeds 99% PFC. Some early PFC circuits were that ‘active’, not required by code, and do not exist in most venues. Active PFC is not even required in North America. Most computers use passive PFC. In short, ‘active PFC’ fear is mostly just that – emotion created by people who only know what was heard. Also called speculation.
How active is PFC in your computer? What do specs say?
Surge protection is another example of emotion. Why are surge protect[b]or[/b] and surge protect[b]ion[/b] same? Words sound alike. So emotion says it must be same.
Protect[b]ion[/b] is where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Numbers separate speculation from reality. What does that UPS or adjacent protector do? UPS is emotionally declared as 100% protection. It says a protector circuit exists. Read its numbers. Hundreds of joules. Near zero protection is hyped as 100% protection (subjectively). The emotional only hear subjectively.
Protect[b]or[/b] is only a connecting device doing what a hardwire would do better.
What does a protector’s power switch do? Does a millimeters gap in an open switch stop what three miles of sky could not? Of course not. Does its hundreds or thousand joules protector circuit absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Of course not. Most advise has no numbers. Because most only believe a first thing they are told – subjectively. And then get angry or defensive when reality exposes that myth.
A surge so tiny as to not harm electronics may also catastrophically damage a near zero joules protector. Undersizing increases sales. The emotion speculate, “My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer.” Total bull. A surge too tiny to damage anything else also destroys a near zero power strip protector. Reality is completely different once numbers are learned.
Your concern is a transient that can overwhelm protection in that computer … and all other household appliances. Again, that means hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed elsewhere. THE most important protection component is single point earth ground. Protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection. We have not yet discussed the ‘art’ of protection. But a power strip protector has no earth ground.
Many must see a magic box. Many assume a box does protection. Many ignore what they do not see – buried ground rods. But those rods (not a magic box) are critical. More numbers apply.
Surge protection is about a current not entering a house. Then all appliances are protected from direct lightning strikes. This solution (dissipating a surge outside via buried rods) is a well proven solution. Once inside, a surge goes hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Nothing inside (ie near zero power strip protector or UPS) can avert that hunt.
But it is called a surge protect[b]or[/b]. That proves it does surge protect[b]ion[/b]? Subjective reasoning is why emotions (not facts) are widely believed hearsay and speculation. No numbers is a first indication of junk science recommendations.
If active PFC is problematic, then one defines that problem with numbers. How active is the PFC? Fear is traceable to subjective recommendations – no numbers. Overwhelmingly, most PFC circuits are only ‘passive’ – not ‘active’. Only rare PFC circuits (often in Europe) have this problem.
Why would anyone spend so much for more expensive PFC. Then a UPS power supply with bad power factor subverts that correction. More numbers that question the need and resulting fears.
Your ‘unplug the UPS’ test is quite useful and recommended.
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> I have been surprised how hard it has been to get clear advice on what to buy and how it works when it comes to UPS.
Most who recommend a UPS have no idea what it really does. These are identified by subjective statements. For example, many ‘know’ a pure sine wave is needed. Total bull. Due to robust protection inside a PSU, even ‘dirtier’ power is ideal. In fact, a square or stepped wave output (rather than a sine wave) means more battery power ends up in the computer. That same square or stepped wave can be harmful to small motors. And perfectly good for electronics.
And still so many want a pure sine wave only because emotion says it is necessary. Meanwhile, where is the number that defines a pure sine wave (ie %THD)? Not provided by the many who need pure sine waves and do not even hava a number for it.
Same with brownouts. Let’s put some numbers to it. Incandescent bulbs can dim to 40% intensity. Even voltage that low is perfectly good for a computer. How often do you have brownouts? Something like never? UPS is really only for blackouts.
Since specific numbers have not been provided for every appliance, then nobody can really say how long that X number of minutes is. However, expect at least 10 minutes with a UPS that large. How do you get power requirements for each appliance? Get a Kill-A-Watt or something equivalent to actually measure those numbers. Since only subjective answers are possible if hard numbers are not first provided.
A UPS it typically made as cheap as possible. A life expectancy of maybe three years from its batteries is reasonable. That above 10 minute number will decrease significantly each year.
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If a system is consuming anywhere near that massive power, then a room is hot; heated by something equivalent to a four slice toaster. Is you system really that hot? Hardly. If consuming as much as 300 watts, then it is a high power system.
Your UPS has more than enough power to perform its function: temporary and dirty power so that unsaved data can be saved. So that a short blackout does not cause unexpected reboots.
View spec numbers for its surge protection. It claims surge protection – subjectively. No numbers is why scams are so successful. How many joules does it claim to absorb? 600? So it absorbs 200 joules and never more than 400. Surges that tiny are converted by a MAC into rock stable, low voltage DC to safety power its semiconductors. It claims near zero protection. Just enough so that you will believe it does 100% protection.
Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. Protection from surges is done by something completely different and that costs tens or 100 times less money. UPS is only temporary and ‘dirty’ power so that unsaved data is not lost; once we include perspective – the numbers.