[Vance Bridges]

Thanks for the feedback some days ago. It has been determined though that 16/9 SD video no matter how well rendered will have issues with
HD players and screens–unless the player has a really good
pixel “up res” factor and there is only one touted as such: Blue Ray

Also we can add to the list of dos :

set the mpeg 2 render options to “high” quality ( ?)

set at “best”

do the two pass of course

on still images, sfx and velocity pulls set the image at
force resample and reduce interlace flicker

If a rendered avi is the source–make sure the render is at
best with the force resample and reduce flicker where needed
and possibly “interleave every frame” (this was an option
that I heard was good although the render takes longer)

Thanks

[Vance Bridges]

Mike a follow-up. Per conversations with others I learned my
experience with playing SD via HD monitors is a disaster and that
other producers have this problem and hence the reason why it
looks great on standard CRT. It is in part a TV problem and the
consumers may think the video is bad when its not. It was advised that I stay within the mp2 and by-pass the avi by adjusting the settings in windows as to avoid the mp2 crashes mentioned before
(if I can) but it was also concurred to do the 2 pass with the VBR. But someone in the replication business also suggested today that I look into burning to a DVD-9 and up the bit rate to produce a cleaner
DVD for those playing on an HD monitor. He wasn’t clear on whether it was the bit rate per the mpeg 2 render or the DVDA output.

Thanks for your points and as to the DVD media as well. Any parting
thoughts on the DVD 9 ?

[Vance Bridges]

[Vance Bridges]

John: some of my information to Mike you may find useful.

Some of your questions require that I render and burn more DVD tests
which is forthcoming –because the issue at hand has nothing to do with what the images look like in the time line–it is purely a burn issue.

1) as to Vegas–I am using the old Vegas 7 and no I am not interested in upgrading right now or even opening up that issue. Indeed. The stuff I am doing is simple and could just as well be done in the old Veg 4 which in some respects is better than 7.
That is another discussion for another day. What we have is fine for cut and paste.

2) The wide 16/9 clips originated as such with no adapter, Conformation to the 16/9 screen has never been an issue The template is always set for that 1.2121. And originates as such. It is not letterboxed. The template stays for that when working with stills which are panned within that parameter. Nothing is 4/3
As to other tweaks–I do use color correction and sometimes use a slight deformation Tweak on the 16/9 of people that the software makes look a bit fatter–

3) the media properties originate as 1.2121 and stay there and
I render all in NTSC widescreen

4) As to defaults. It is always set at best and stays there and opens in NTSC wide. The lower
field is the default., I don’t change any of that. The audio is
not an issue. That is put on 48 –separate subject.

5. As stated to Mike the slow down in the clip was to 72% . Typically this is for slowing down a fast pan. As it may enter artifacts–yes the heavier it is the more
It will–but not a pixel mash down. The still material was pixeled as well–so it is not limited to the DV slow mo,

6) I will do your test later today. I have to take the DVD over to another place to see it in a better screen. But on standard TV 4/3 the image despite the bars looks great–Once it
goes on the 16/9 screen (rendered and originated in that template) it doesn’t look that. Great, Going direct to mp2 is fine–but attempts to render an hour project direct to mp2 won’t happen– esp. at best setting–But even at good-it may stop half way through
once it hits a high res signal,

7) the sample stays at smart for most although some hi res stuff I put it on force but that is rare…

I will continue to test.

[Vance Bridges]

Mike: To answer your questions:

1) This was merely a 4 minute or so clip from the entire program–(the duration of which is 60 min part 1 & 30 min part 2 (90min) with
hopefully enough bit space left to have a 15 min footnote and a
reference list roll that can be of lesser or degraded quality render
to save space, The menus will be kept to the basics with no
spec effects. The end result will be glass mastered. So we are only
talking 4 minutes here. (Because of the complex nature of the intro
credits and hi-res dissolves in the program I found it easier to run off no-sound best-setting avis. The sound is treated totally separately.

So this sample was merely an MOS (silent) image only reference.
An mp2 at best setting was created from an avi best setting for the test. Rendering the entire program direct to mp2 has been attempted before and failed–although I have seen clips before on large monitors that went out direct to mp2 and looked good–but I avoided that direct route for this test assuming it would not degrade. Unfortunately Vegas does not allow me to assemble pre-rendered mp2s without re-rendering them–so I am left to either avi the pieces or direct out mp2 (if it works …which it won’t for the entire program)

I will have to do some bit-rate calculation before the entire program
is burned–

The DVD test was burned at 4x on a +R Memorex although I wanted a
slower speed

After reading other posts–I may want to experiment with doing the
mp2 as a two pass–another writer said he got better results with DVDA doing the mp2 (although I have no control there)

2. The clip included dissolving stills with pans and ended with video
of a man standing–his clip reduced to 72% for a slower run. It stayed at smart re-sample. ( His section and some of the still information was overtly pixilated and damaged in the DVD reviews on three separate monitors.

3)The DVDA settings were default (which may be an issue), and there
was nothing done to the mp2 settings which were rendered also at
best setting. The DVDA merely said it was NTSC wide, and in
Optimize it stayed at default BR with a max at 10.080/ BR 9.748. Total 1.586. Est size 184.5 mb default at 8.000

4. The original source was clean digital stills (hi res) and the video was undamaged standard 720/480 anamorphic wide. I correct myself in an earlier qualification where I said I may have zoomed in too close to the still material–Indeed, I looked again
and zoomed in on the monitor here and nothing broke up. No this is a
pixel-compression issue. Something is occurring once it goes out of the timeline. Whether that something is via the avis or the mp2 renders or the DVDA burn–we will see. Some DVD authoring people may look at a sample of my avi or mp2 to see what’s going on.

Its frustrating to have a beautiful program and not be able to get it on a DVD worth seeing.But I will continue to resolve the issue.

Thanks for your time.

[Vance Bridges]

CRYPTIC VIDEOLOGY A WASTE OF TIME
FORGET VEGAS AND DVDA FOR YOUR DVD

I went back and zoomed in on one of the digital
still frames from an avi–I zoomed in on a cheap monitor
until it was the size it would be on a large wide screen.,
hd It was great–though a little blurry; it was clean with no overt pixilation unlike the monstrosity that resulted when I rendered
a DVD on the same picture in Vegas., which proves my point: nothing is wrong with the material.

Rendering to mp2 and DVD out of Vegas is a bag of worms and that’s why all of these forums and discussions on other websites take place. Once Sony bought the software they didn’t care about the customer. They and their designers have allowed
a fluke to be passed on–upgrade after upgrade with built in weirdware to make the customer assume they will be getting a sweet deal when in truth it is a endless wonder of what ifs and how to-s that result which keeps the producers getting the upgrade.

I repeat what was said earlier. Vegas is okay to assemble your project and produce avis- or at least an EDL. -It is not a good program to render anything to a final output–and I will repeat this message on other forums and to consumers. Also–their customer
service is a sad sad joke.

[Vance Bridges]

Other forums have been discovered discussing similar concerns. I will defer to them. The boards center on bit rates, settings in mp2 renders and different authoring programs. The problem really isn’t in the innate material but in the translation to mp2 and then DVD. Even in Cow this was found e.g. where one writer discovered DVDA creates a better mp2 than allowing Vegas to. For good video to translate so bad in “best” setting–means the issue is lost
in translation i.e. I am beginning to think that Vegas is great for assembling a project–but not great for its final render or DVDA. I’m shopping…

[Vance Bridges]

I learned a long time ago that big still images (I mean really big) need to be reduced (in another program) to work properly in Vegas.
The macro close ups of detials in these stills were done beyond the safe point so their pixels were exaggerated in the wide screen bigger screen, The video on the other hand is the problem–There was no zoom. It’was a straight shot and is perfect. The slow-mo and bit rate may play into this but so far no one knows

[Vance Bridges]

Terry: the pixel-blotching was observed when the clip was played
on two different Samsung wide screens (and players) in the media
room. That is not to say the damage wasn’t on the smaller screens
you just couldn’t notice it. My reference monitor in the office
unfortunately is merely an old magnavox for reviews–but the clips
look really good on it–as they do on the smaller screen. Besides
overcranking close ups on the digi stills–I am at a loss on the
DV clips–Even slowing up in an Avi and going to mp2 should not ref
so much bad material.

[Vance Bridges]

Bob: The stills are huge files both from slide scans, digital
pictures (hi) and so on–the ones that were crud on the
wide screen are the ones I did macros on from digi files
from LOCongress and evidently I wasn’t aware that I had passed
the safe zone (for larger screens) That can be remedied by my making a still of the image and having a more solid result or just backing off. (A few others did not have that problem but that was when the entire picture was shown)

But what I am most bothered by is that the DV video material on this
sample(which is perfect) was pixel-blotched like it was made with a cell phone.(I have seen video from this camera 6 feet across and it
is crystal clear–(an old Canon)
Evidently–the slowing of the image of the video clip in Vegas
and rendering from a best setting AVI to an mp2 has this result.
(Part of the problem I have with Vegas is that huge projects
crash when you try to render all out to mp2 and I try to pre-
render special effects and complex montages to a best avi and then
go to mp2.) All of this material by the way–looks perfect on a
standard sized 4/3 monitor.