[Ty Ford]

Thanks WIll,

Suspending disbelief…. I have to think about that or it comes out suspend belief. 🙂

People aren’t stupid: Of course we are! Otherwise we wouldn’t pay $3 to throw basketballs at an undersized hoop at the carnival so we can try to win a $1 prize.

And about Bouke’s not wanting to ruffle Scorcese by having to do something about a changing sound problem. Of all people, actors and directors with experience know exactly what’s going on. If your sound situation changes that much, I doubt a lav is going to help much.

Do you want to hide that mic or not? If you do, you’re going to have to spend more time rigging it. In the “making of” featurettes I see that come on most DVDs now, I don’t see a lav, I hear a boom. Concern and being careful is one thing, but I think there’s a line. Do you also shoot two cameras in case one screws up? Not in the crews I work with. There may be a second or third camera (in a very few cases), but they aren’t shooting the master shot.

Bouke, I’m not suggesting you change what you do. If that makes you sleep better at night, go for it. I’m sure your experience has led you to where you are. Mine hasn’t. I just get a little twisted when I hear about a DVD tutorial that makes a broad statement that you have to do boom and lav, when in my (and other’s experiences) it’s not necessary. Again, I’m not saying there won’t be times when I will boom and lav when the situation calls for it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

[bouke vahl] “[Ty Ford] “Let’s discuss.”

right. Will start.
Again, i am NOT a sound guy, i’m an editor that gets your stuff and does battle with it while you are already in the pub.

I prefer boom AND lav for a few reasons:
Clothing noise on lavs is a big problem. If you have the right gear (meaning, boom and lav of the same series) and background noise is low, you can seamless switch between them if needed.

>>> If your primary mic has to be a wireless lav because of the action, then using a boom mic as a backup because of clothing noise is your choice. I’d rather get the lav right. But I don’t know your exact situation and that’s my point. Each situation is different. The “Lav & Boom edict does not always apply.

BUT, i have 20+ years of experience, and have the right gear.
Not every editor is in this position. Shooting both lav and boom to two channels is risky, phasing issues are always there.

>>> sure but a good audio post person can realign the tracks and get some EQ going to minimize the difference. I hear it on TV and in movies. Ooop! they went to the other mic for that line! That could also be ADR. It’s not usually a line that has to be changed because of USA TV censors, although I hear them as well.

[Ty Ford] “my job as mixer got a lot easier because the better gear had fewer nasty peaks, edges, polar and phase issues”

This i don’t get. Acousic phasing issues due to the distance between the source and the mic are ALWAYS a problem.
Keep in mind that you need an audio workstation to be able to mix and slip the sound to get both mics back in phase.
If the mixing is done on an FCP rig during the editing, probably both channels will be used.
Chances that the editor:
a) knows about the existence of phase issues
b) has correlation metering AND is doing dialogue with stereo output to the meters but with mono monitoring
c) Has time and tools to fix it, or at least is smart enough to phase reverse one of the channels in case of trouble…

>>>a lot of less expensive boom mics have weird pattern edges and peaks inside the pattern. There’s really nothing you can do about that in post. These are design flaws in the mics. I’m referring to one mic being used, not interaction phasing among multiple mics.

>>>>If you are doing work with audio post people who regularly do ABC, that’s great. But this forum is read by a lot of people who will never see the inside of a comprehensive audio post facility. They probably don’t own the best gear.

are close to zero…
So if you’re unsure who is going to finish the job, be afraid, be very, very afraid…

>>>>Yes! Be very afraid. 🙂

One of my pet peeves, WRITE DOWN ON THE TAPE LABEL WHAT IS WHAT. It is not uncommon for an editor to get a huge amount of different sources. It is also not uncommon to do a rough cut based on content, without listening to the sound qualtiy.
If you switch channels during a shoot, it WILL go wrong during the edit if this is not properly labeled on tape WITH A LOT OF EXLAMATION MARKS!!!!

>>>>Yes!!!!!!!

So, if you do record both Lav and boom, write down your preference for the channel to be used, and mark the tape like:
Ch1 lav
Ch2 boom (ONLY FOR BACKUP) / cam mic during B-roll

and this is just when shooting one person… ”

>>>>>Can be, but if I know for sure the boom will win, you’ll be getting “boom-boom” from me. 🙂
Thanks for your additions, especially on a holiday weekend. If we ever get together, I’ll buy the first drink.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Hello Pattie and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.

Voices are like finger prints. Each one is unique.I have been doing voicework and editing voicework for a long time. I teach VO. Some people have wonderful instruments, some can learn to have wonderful instruments, some people will never have wonderful instruments.

Your particular talent may not be able to control their unwanted mouth sounds. I once had a professional storyteller come in to record a CD. She had all kinds of mouth noises; some of which were the result of her false teeth. I spent at least as much time editing noises out as I did recording her.

Unwanted mouth noises are usually, lip smacks, cheek and tongue stictions, glottal opens and closures and excessive sibilance.

Lip smacks happen when you allow the lips to close against each other and then open the mouth. In some people a small click is heard as the sticky lips part. Don’t close your mouth so much.

Cheek and tongue sticitions (rice crispies in the mouth) are similar, but happen inside the mouth as the various surfaces touch each other and then separate.

Glottal opens and closures happen in the back of the throat when you open or close your throat.

Excessive sibilance is due to misplacement of the tongue behind the upper front teeth during S, Z Ts, Sh, Ch and other sounds.

Lip smacks, cheek and tongue stitctions and glottal sounds are usually due to dry mouth for nerves or dehydration. They can also be just the way the person speaks.

Excessive sibilance is correctable; usually with 4-6 visits to a good speech therapist, who will help retrain your tongue placement.

Sounds like you need a bit more practice as a dialog editor. 🙂 Editing dialog (monolog) should not result in distortion. What sort of distortion are you talking about?

Hard to say exactly about your gear problems. Some “over” LEDs fire at 1-3 dB below clipping. Others at 0dB. If you can zoom in and don’t see clipped peaks, you should be OK.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Hello Janice,

That sounds strange. Call Shure and ask them to confirm. Could be a typo. Please post what you find out.

Thanks,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Hello Janice

as close as possible.

The farther apart the transmitter and receiver are, the greater the possibility of a drop out.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Hi Jonathan,

I’ve learned the “pull the tab on the box” for zooming in and out in PTLE.

I don’t know if you can map your scroller to the zoom, but it may be possible.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

[Janice Johnson] “At work we are going to start to capture lectures using a capture station called the Echo 360. The back of the Echo 360 does not have an XLR input, it only has RCA stero and 1/4: stereo audio inputs, both unbalanced. My boss wants me to figure out what kind of lavalier mike system to buy to plug into this thing in order to capture the audio. He suggested that we use wireless lav mikes to dual mike the lecturer – one mike to record our audio and one mike hooked up to the PA so the audience can hear the talk, both mikes set to the same channel. It seems to me like that could cause all kinds of feedback.

The Countryman B6 mikes looked good to me. But how do I hook it up into the Echo360? And what other equipment do I need? “

Hello Janice and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum,

What school are you working at?

Your boss’s idea sounds a bit unusual as you describe it.

You only need one mic on the person talking.

I would put a small mixer in the configuration.

Countryman B6 (if you want, (but i’d prefer an E6) to the mixer. from the mixer to the house PSA system and to the Echo 360 audio input.

I’f also opt for a hard wired mic instead of wireless unless the person speaking likes to move around a lot. Interference these days from Blackberries, cell phones and other sources can quickly compromise your wireless audio.

You are correct, you can not operate two transmitters on the same frequency. You can operate two receivers on the same frequency so they both hear one transmitter, but you don’t need that. (I guess you might do that and feed the second receiver to the Echo 360. That’d work, but you may find reception problems.)

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Perfect that you popped in Martin,

Perhaps you can explain the high selfnoise of the CMS 10 sent to me. No one ever got back to me to let me know if your demo mic was broken or not.

BTW, as I understand it, the CMS 10 isn’t exactly the same as the model created for NHK. The NHK model has some extra features, right?

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Hi David,

Booming from below is an accepted practice when the situation requires it.

Buck,

It wasn’t totally clear in your post how you intended to use the mic; on-camera or on a boom. In either case, you’ll need a good suspension mount(s) and wind gear.

Also if you do plan on using the mic while mounted on the camera, you should test to see how quiet your camera is. Some are quire loud and the mic will pick that up.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Anthony,

A very balanced response. 🙂

I’m a protools LE user. Started with an 001, then 002, now 003.

Considering what I paid for my first DAW in 1990, a DIGI 003R is a super bargain. Weaknesses; as with most gear in this price range, the preamps and A/D converters are not as good as the top shelf stuff and that does take away from the sound a bit.

My preamps cost as much per channel as the DIGI003R itself.

Still the DIGI oo3 is a very good place to start. If you plan on doing audio for video, the DIGI Video Tool kit costs more, but is worth it.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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