[Trevor Styles]

dude, Noah–you’re the man–thanks a ton! I can’t believe the problematic footage I am left with…but, the show must go on! Thanks for all the help! On a related topic, I have a question regarding final output:

Once I have all of my workflow figured out, I would like to be left with 3 files. 1) an UNCOMPRESSED AVI at 23.976 FPS 2) a 24p MPG2 file (for output to a DVD and 3) a regular compressed file to play back on a PC

I am only confused on option 3. I will be working on a 24p timeline, and all 24p files after conversion, so my footage will all be 24p….so if I want to compress a file for the PC…how do I do this? I hear that once your file is 24 frames, it is very difficult to add frames back in to make it 29.97…and I hear that there isn’t a decent codec to output 23.976, since 29.97 is NTSC standard and all compressors work in 29.97 format…is this true? I would have thought Quicktime, or another compressor would have been able to handle a 24p file?

[Trevor Styles]

Thanks Jonathan! How do I convert my 24p advanced to straight 24p? I am using Premiere CS4 for my NLE–thanks again!!

[Trevor Styles]

Thanks Dave-I’ll give that a shot in an hour (after 5) and let you know how it goes. I did notice that AE interprteted the clip on it’s own. I guess I just figured it would “know” what it was doing. I also noticed that it applied 24p pulldown to the uncompressed file as well. On an Uncompressed AVI that was rendered from the 24p timeline, it shouldn’t have to do any type of pulldown, should it? Perhaps something was rendered incorrectly?

My goal is to render out a small uncompressed clip from the Premiere timeline…apply my special effects in AE, and then bring that FX clip back onto my Premiere timeline.

I realize I have a “bear” of a project with many technical problems to overcome…a large one by itself is “upscaling” my 4:3 footage to 16:9. Do you know a good way to do this (with the least amount of resolution loss?) I know I shouldn’t be asking such an “amateur question…but originally I was planning on using a letterbox to make both sets of footage conform…and then recently decided to do a true 16:9 image, since most of the footage we will use is from the Panasonic 24p camera.

THANKS AGAIN!!!!

[Trevor Styles]

Thank you for the reply Dave–

That makes sense about the anamorphic footage—so don’t “alter it” at all then—-don’t try to scale it to the correct aspect ratio?

As for rendering clips…

Priemer does interpret the pulldown correctly. I can tell by previewing in my timeline. The problem occurs when I try to render out a clip, so that I can bring that into After Effects. Once I render a clip…the problems come around. I can perfectly drop the entire original captured footage into Premiere, or After Effects, and have it correctly remove the (2:3:3:2) pulldown. If I render straight fom After Effects (using the raw footage), it does a perfect render–23.976, with no duplicate frames or interlacing.

HOWEVER….

If I render a clip out of Premiere using the raw footage (UNCOMPRESSED AVI)….this clip is messed up—looks interlaced, and does not look like Progressive frames.

My timeline says 23.976, and when I scrub through, it “appears” like it is full frames with no interlacing…but my render doesn’t come out that way.

Any idea on this?

[Trevor Styles]

Thanks again for your help Noah. I have gone through the footage…it looks like 70% was shot with the Panasonic, so I am going to try my best to edit at 24p, and convert all of the Sony footage. So one major question that is probably going to sound really STUPID:

The Panasonic stuff was shot with a 16:9 anamorphic widescreen lens. So the Frame is “technically a 4:3” frame still, and looks stretched vertically. I have never shot “anamorphic” before. I am editing in Adobe Premiere CS4. Do I now edit on a 16:9 timeline, and “Interpret the Footage” so that the correct aspect ratio is changed…or do I stretch the footage (by resizing the image 133% horizontally) to fill the frame? It seems like all I should have to do is “Interpret the footage” so that my pixel aspect ratio is “Widescreen”, rather than the default DV .9 pixel ratio. Your words of wisdom would be most helpful–thanks Noah!

[Trevor Styles]

Thanks for all the help Noah–

If I choose to, can I just edit my 24p advanced footage on a 29.97 timeline? I have heard that this will play fine on the computer, but when output to a TV, it will appear “jittery” or “strobey”…something about the extra frames…do you have experience with this, and can it be overcome? I am thinking my best bet is to just use a 29.97 timeline.

[Trevor Styles]

Thank you Noah–that answered most of my questions…just a couple more, than I will leave you alone 🙂

1. I can’t leave the 4:3 Pillar boxed…because this is a feature length film (low budget zombie movie) and I need all the footage to look somewhat “close”. That being said…what is the best plug in or program to upscale the 4:3 to 16:9? Or….would you leave the project as 4:3…and just add a letter box to the 4:3, and squeeze the 24p footage…I think shrinking the vertical down to 89% and leaving the horizontal at 100% will give the correct aspect ratio. I know this would “shrink” the 24p footage and not use all my pixels…and I may as well have shot 4:3 in that case…but at least that would give me a uniform image without “blowing up” the 29.97 footage, right?

2. So if I convert the 29.97 to 24p…what is the best way to do this? Use Andrew Kramers frame rate converter? Use Magic Bullet Frames? Use Virtual Dub?

3. FX—If I need to bring an edited clip from my NLE into After Effects…should I render out an “Uncompressed” AVI…apply the effects in AE…and then render out another “Uncompressed” AVI…and haul that into my NLE for final picture lock?

What are your thoughts on these issues?

Thanks so much—you are such a HUGE help!!!

[Trevor Styles]

Okay Noah–I’m going to hit you with EXACTLY what I am doing and trying to accomplish and see if you can steer me in the right direction:
The main camera used was the 24p camera shot mostly in advanced mode. A widescreen anamorphic lens was also used. The “B” camera was shot in 4:3 at 29.97 FPS.
Initially I wanted to output a 24p DVD…at this point I really don’t care if it’s 29.97 or 24p…I just want to get to editing, and have my footage “work” together to create 1 image that can work together.
The confusion I am having has to do with Field pulldown, and mixing the aspect ratios and frame rates. I want ONE conforming image. I also have a lot of effects to process in After Effects. There is a slight problem with the 16:9 image that the 24p camera has in some of the shots as well–the french flag comes into the shot in some of the footage (just inside the “Action Safe” zone).

I would like a simple straight forward solution to all of this. I am having troubles with all the different issues at hand. Since most of my footage is 24p, would you convert the 29.97 stuff, and blow it up to widescreen, using Magic Bullet Instant HD and Magic Bullet Frames…and then do one conforming edit on a 23.976 timeline? Do I need to mess with field interpolation or pull down or deinterlacing? I’m sorry to sound like such a “rookie”…but I have never had the tecnical issues that are coming with 24p. I have always shot 29.97, and am finding that there are a host of problems with using mixed frame rates and aspect ratios together.

I guess my question to YOU—how would YOU do the editing? Here are the issues again:
1. Different frame rate footage (24p and 29.97)
2. Different aspect ratios (anamorphic 16:9 using a widescreen lens on the 24p footage, and 4:3 using a Sony VX2100)
3. Matte box flags come into “action safe area” on some of the 16:9 footage
4. Will be doing color correction and HEAVY effects in After Effects. So I will need to do a render from my NLE-bring it into AE, and then do a render there and bring that rendered clip back into my NLE.

Please also touch on compression and pull down if it applies.

I have Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, After Effects, Media Studio Pro 8, and all of the Red Giant Plug ins to use.

THANKS SO MUCH NOAH!!! I REALLY appreciate any advice and help!

[Trevor Styles]

Thanks for the reply Noah. My other concern is that it is an Effects heavy film…so I will need to do renders of cuts, and then bring them into After Effects, and then bring them back into my NLE (deciding between Premiere, Sony Vegas 5, or MediaStudio Pro 8–these are the editing programs I have)

So, what I am wondering in regards to that:

On my first cut, do I do my render as UNCOMPRESSED, and then bring that into After Effects. Do I do any kind of field pull down or deinterlacing in After Effects? And then should I create movie as an UNCOMPRESSED file in After Effects…and then bring that back into my NLE? Once he final clip is back on my NLE’s timeline, do I do any type of deinterlacing?

What are your suggestions? Thanks SOOO much for the help!!!