Tony West
Forum Replies Created
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[Michael Gissing] “they see no reason for Apple to improve or add further grade tools.”
Not accurate. As you told others, read the whole thread.
[Michael Gissing] “So given you are committed to the craft of grading, do you only use the built in board or rely on third party tools to get a result?”
I’m not convinced you can grade shots faster than me with your tools. It’s that whole “show me state” thing.
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[andy patterson] “He used the ripple edit tool when he should have used the slide tool. “
He used that also. He slid it just like you in the same video you posted. Just before he popped back over to X
[andy patterson] “Who cares?”
I do.
Let me ask you this, when you cut in X are you in the select tool more often or in the position tool more often?
I bet you’re in the select tool more often, and you know what that means? : )
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OK Michael, just to be clear it was this line that set me off
“So what this argument boils down to is that many editors just don’t care about grading enough to want decent tools”
You see, that comes off like you believe you have a greater commitment to your craft then me. I can assure you that you couldn’t be wronger on that sentiment.
As a person that shoots for a living also, I’m looking at the entire process. I think most people would acknowledge that a greater challenge in grading comes from dealing with exposure not color. As you mentioned, trying to recover a person’s face that has been under exposed, a blown out window behind the talent, or a blown out sky.
Your ability to push the material is also effected more by the bitrate the footage was shot at then your software on the backend.
What I’m taking into account here is the leap in camera technology over the years and the skill of the DP’s with those incredible cameras. Camera manufactures are all touting “High Dynamic Range” for a reason. I work with people (myself included) who actually know how to use picture profiles in those cameras to the fullest extent and how to get great images out of these great cameras.
What gets to me at the back end looks amazing and what I’m doing is “tweaking up” and making subtle changes. Gone are the days when somebody comes in with their blue footage from a B & W VF.
The higher level of production you are working on, the higher level of skill from the cinematographer should equal a higher quality of footage that hits your edit bay. The less work you should have to do.
Your follow up post was more “civil”.
And for the record, I give people as much respect as they give me. No MORE or no LESS.
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hmmmmm
So what it sounds like to me you are saying is…….if you put up a downloadable ungraded image and then you put up the same image that you graded with your superior tools and skills, and then subpar X users put up their grade on your sample image side by side, your graded image is going to clearly stand head and shoulders over the others.
Do have that right, or did I misunderstand you?
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[Oliver Peters] “[Tony West] “You never mention the word “cast” in the entire article.”
Semantics.”
Agreed, as it was when you brought it up with my post.
[Oliver Peters] “What I suggested was a preference toggle so a user could choose the wheels instead of the color swatch. But both would be available.”
OK
[Oliver Peters] “What about curves, LUTs, etc.?”
Sure. I will take as many LUTs as they want to put in there. I will take everything on your list.
I do kind of feel for software makers who are trying to make a living filling “gaps” left by X
As X fills those, it steps on those people. apple doesn’t need to make ALL the money out there, but that’s a whole nother topic.I certainly enjoy not paying a subscription. If it’s going to cost me for them to add stuff that I likely won’t use that often, no thanks.
It’s a balance I guess. I like the cheap upfront A la carte model myself.
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I think the problem with your video Andy is that it’s built on a false premise. That Miranda doesn’t know how to use “ripple mode” in Pr. Or that others possibly don’t.
EVERYBODY knows how to use ripple mode Andy (you didn’t have to waste time making a video for that). Including Miranda who uses ripple mode about 5 mins into his video.
His point wasn’t that Pr can’t go into ripple mode (which he used in the video) his point was that ripple mode is the “default” in X and it isn’t the default in Pr.
Now, if you would have just said, “Hey, going into ripple mode is not that big of a deal” I think most people would have agreed. It’s not that big of a deal. We all did it all the time before X and before we met you ; )
I prefer the default Ripple mode. Not a big deal
Would you agree Brian? : ))
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[Oliver Peters] “the color board is about balance and cast, not increasing or decreasing a specific color, which is what the UI implies.”
It’s also what you implied in that article…………………….”If you want to make the shadows less blue, then move the shadows button into the lower blue region of the color swatch to subtract blue.”
You never mention the word “cast” in the entire article.
Also are you suggesting that Apple swap the color board for wheels or have the wheels and color board?
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[Oliver Peters] “So you aren’t reducing red or blue or whatever as a specific color. You are changing the color cast of that image. “
Yeah. That’s what I want to do.
I’m doing exactly what you said in your OWN blog……………………
“If you want highlights to be more red, then move the highlight button into the upper red area of the color swatch. This adds red tinting to the highlights of the image. If you want to make the shadows less blue, then move the shadows button into the lower blue region of the color swatch to subtract blue. ”
Do you not remember writing that?
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When I look at an image that I want to grade, more times than not there is one color that is dominating.
Maybe it’s Red, Green, Yellow. The first thing I do is grab that mid puck and slide it over to that color and subtract.That first simple move often brings the look right into line.
After using that board for a while it hit me. They have taken the science of color and converted it into a simple math equation. You simply don’t need to know much about the science of colors. (I think people should still study it, but……)
Too much blue? Subtract blue.
I notice when I look at my board, more times than not my pucks are in the minus region. Easier to take away than to know what to add.
I feel my grading is more intuitive and efficient this way. I’m not thinking of it in terms of the number of “clicks”,
I’m thinking in terms of “process”. I get to the look that I want quickly. Try it.I have color finale I just don’t find myself using it anymore. I end up getting exactly what I want without it.
I don’t believe Apple changed from wheels to the board just to be different. I think somebody over there figured this out. I’m glad they did.
I’m not opposed to changing things in X, (You have to be about change to like X in the first place) I’m just more impressed with what “they” have come up with rather than the ideas I see on here from some.
I didn’t see the skimmer, or connected clips or even the color board coming. I didn’t think of those things first. They saw that before me. I guess I want more of “Their” ideas : )
Some folks on here want less. That’s the debate in a nutshell.
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[Scott Witthaus] ” I’m an editor first. Sure, I can do a little color but if I can’t do it in X (or with whatever plug in), it goes to a colorist who has invested in her/his profession with panels, scopes, monitors, etc.
“Exactly my thoughts.
I can pretty much do whatever grading I’m trying to do in X and a few plugins.
I find the color board to be very straight forward and simplistic. I add as many layers as I want and I like how I can turn those off and on.
The Lumetri tools look very nice, but at the end of the day I believe I can get pretty much the same look as somebody using it.
I don’t worry if somebody else has the same plugins on their computer. If it’s needed for the job get it. It’s not like any of these things cost a million dollars.
I like their new color and effects workspaces.
I’d prefer to see Apple add more Looks and Effects than tools like wheels.