[Todd Terry]

[Ilana Ellis] “The client has said they’ve never had a video producer charge for stock”

Then they haven’t done very much of this. Stock, especially if it is third-party footage that the editor has to go and purchase, is always billed… obviously.

[Ilana Ellis] “This particular organization happens to have a membership to a stock site, so they’ve offered for me to use it.”

That’s not unheard of. I’m actually working with a client right now that has a Shutterstock account, and we do exactly what you described. We edit with comp files and once we figure out which images or footage we want, we shoot a list to the client and they grab the files for us. That in itself is not a wild or unique thing. BUT if your presumed client’s account is with some obscure or poor source, then it might not help you.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Mark Suszko] “…they start looking for a way to use the thing… when it really should be the other way around, don’t you think?”

Sure, but that happens all the time, like in the examples you cited. Not much you can do about it, I suppose.

Almost 20 years ago when I started my present company, I had crane shots like crazy in virtually everything we did… simply because we were the only people anywhere around here that had a jib. I’m sure I used it plenty of times when I didn’t need it. Now, I never use it unless a shot really calls for it (and largely because I’m older now and don’t want to schlep a bunch of heavy barbell weights unless it’s for a shot I really want).

We also have a full-size (and “real” branded) Steadicam rig that hasn’t been out of it’s case in, oh, I literally can’t remember the last time. It was used like crazy when new, but now only when needed. All the cloned rigs ruined the novelty and “specialness” of Steadicam shots. I really should sell it, but with tiny cameras these days few people have the need to fly a big and heavy one anymore.

I’m probably the same way with sliders today, I use them all the time… both straight and curved ones. But I’m trying to be judicious about them and only use them when they add to what I’m trying to do… not just for the sake of using them.

It’s hard though…. when you have new toys there’s an irresistible urge to play with them. I think that will always be the case.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Christopher…

I raised exactly this same question earlier this year in another COW forum. I needed to do a very similar thing (although for different reasons).

You might read through the advice I got….

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/17/882070

There are also a number of YouTube videos where people demonstrate how to do this… I didn’t save any links but they were very easy to find with a quick search.

Bottom line is yes, you can do it… there are several ways to do it, with varying degrees of expense involved.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Thanks for reply… and all great suggestions. Most of which are (sadly) impractical in this situation (isn’t that always the way?).

Yeah I don’t think I’d even consider directional lavs (I frankly didn’t even know such a thing exists). They sound like a lot of trouble and would be very finicky. Our talent is non pro-performers and will have their hands full already so I couldn’t expect them to worry about head positioning and things like that.. besides I don’t want to restrict them to looking like mannequins, anyway. Blocking out ear-set mics would be hard, we’ll have nine GoPros simultaneously running in the car and that’s gonna cover about every conceivable angle (and it’s gonna be hard enough blocking out the cameras, let alone mics). Technically yeah we could get rid of them in post, but roto and wire-removal would take so much suite time that part alone would probably exceed the entire project’s (modest) budget. Long before my wanna-be movie director days I was a wanna-be actor, and in those days on stage we frequently wore mics in our hair, so that thought crossed me… but I’m thinking that while the usual-on-the-chest position is very wind-protected in a car, that other positions might be a lot more wind vulnerable.

It’s always something huh?

I have a feeling I’m being the audio version of one of those guys we get posting in the cinematography and lighting forums, newbies who insist on very complicated lighting and camera setups, but have neither the budgets nor expertise to pull them off.

We’ll figure out something. I definitely do appreciate all the advice.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

I was able to do some testing and just thought I’d give an update.

Just as a test today I grabbed my editor and we did some ragtop riding in my better half’s convertible. I was wearing a lav, and so was he… both under our shirts. I couldn’t monitor through headphones well, se we just rolled sound and went out driving, having a normal conversation at 10, 20, 30mph for a while, on various roads near our studio, and then out on a highway at speeds up to 60mph. I had the radio off and also the car’s AC off (yes I’m one of those people who will run the AC even in a convertible on a hot day… it works). We drove for a while with the windows down, and then also put the windows up. The top was always down.

Back in the studio I listened to it and was a little surprised…. there was no wind noise. Zero. Not even a hint of any. That was the good part.

The bad news is that even though we had the mics fairly close, the environment was pretty loud. I could hear the car fairly well, and the traffic around us pretty darn loud. I’m not too sure how to deal with that, as our test was only with two mics and for the real shoot we will be using four… so I’m guessing that’s 4x the ambient sound. Plus… we were driving a modern MiniCooper which is no doubt quieter than the big vintage American 1960s era vehicle that will be the picture car (and unfortunately it has to be practically driven, it can’t be towed). So, I’ll have to figure out a way to deal with all that. The ambient sound is far too continuously variable to sample it for removal like we easily do for room tone.

If anyone has any brilliant ideas there, I’m all ears.

But hey, at least there was zero wind.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Thanks for the ideas. Yeah, we’ve used polarizers and ND filters with the GoPros with less than satisfying results. I’ll try the faster frame-rate and frame blending idea… but almost invariably any blended-frame footage doesn’t look that great to me. It is definitely worth a test though.

[Rich Rubasch] “Why not a bunch of A7s’s?”

Well a secondary reason is size, even though the A7s is a small camera, it’s gigantic compared to a naked GoPro and might not easily mount in all the nooks and crannies where we want to put them. But the primary and obvious reason is the fact that a GoPro is $400 and a A7s is $2000+, body only. That’s no big deal if you need one, but we might be running as many as nine of them, simultaneously.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[carter harriett] “Please help me with your suggestions.”

Ok, here’s one… don’t spam industry forums with totally transparent sales pitches.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

I’m not an audio expert by any stretch (I’m a director and DP by profession), but I happened to be in this forum seeking advice about something else and saw this and thought I’d chime in just from a little personal experience…

I’ve used the MKH416 almost exclusively for several years now. The first time I used it I instantly fell in love, it has such a beautiful warm open sound. I use them for dialog in scenes, interviews, interiors, exteriors, everything.

I’ll take it one step further… a couple of years ago, when swapping some equipment out in the studio, some nimrod accidently dropped the AT mic that we used for voiceover work and it hit the stage floor pretty hard (ok, ok… it was me).

In a pinch I put one of the 416’s in the VO booth and I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but it sounded GREAT. I didn’t learn until later that a lot of the very top-end voice guys use the 416 as a booth mic. So, that’s what we use in there now, too.

So… while I can’t speak to any of the other mics you mentioned, I heartily endorse the MKH416. They are expensive, but worth every penny.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled experts who are a lot smarter about this stuff than me.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Thanks, appreciate pointing to the Rycote Undercovers. I’ve lived in a world of big fur windjammers for so long that I didn’t know what all was out there.

I think this will be challenging but not impossible, I believe. Years ago I did a long piece with two guys driving in a convertible, both were mic’d and the audio was just fine (in that case those were radio mics). It’s actually not nearly as windy inside a convertible as many non-ragtoppers think, and because of the vortex the wind actually comes from behind not from the front. The image of a beautiful blonde with hair blowing back behind her in a convertible is a total myth… the wind actually goes the other way (watch some long-haired gal or guy getting beat to death in the face by their long hair on the road someday), so I think that wind will be manageable. Amusingly, this is what really happens….

There would be some wind, sure, but in usual worn positions the mic is actually fairly well wind protected. It’s really more traffic and sound-on-the-street that I’m concerned about… and noise from our hero car itself, as in this case it will be practically driven rather than towed (unfortunately).

This is unscripted with non-pro actors (“real people’) so looping is not a consideration, we have to get it live.

Headphone monitoring will be a little bit of a pain, but of course we’ll listen to all takes obviously. A little troublesome but not a big deal at all. We could feed the Zooms’ headphone outputs to transmitters to enable live monitoring, but that almost falls into the more-trouble-than-it’s-worth category, and we’d need a couple of extra sets of ears in the camera vehicle. Might do that anyway. I’d probably task the most technically-proficient of the talent with the job of making sure all the recorders are rolling, and a PA whose job is it to remind them at each take. A potential for screw-ups, still, but if vigilant about it I think that’s ok.

Appreciate the particular mic recommendations… that’s the part I’m concerned about at this point and was posting about. Thanks for the suggestions, will definitely be checking them out and testing…

Thanks!

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Thanks guys for those suggestions. I’ll look at those models and see what my audio guy has to say if he ever chimes in, and I will check out Trew Audio as well. Yes, Nashville is just up the road from us, so to speak.

I think I definitely need to put mics on each of my cast. We need good clean audio (well, as clean as possible under the circumstances), and will be in a noisy open convertible vehicle in real traffic… so I don’t think boundary mics or mics at any greater distance than on each actor will do the job.

I do definitely want to go wired. Distance should be no issue, the Zoom recorders can be on the floorboard, or even in seats beside the actors… either two or three H4n’s, depending on whether we end up with a cast of four or five. Each mic will be recorded independently, there will be no need for any on-location mixing. Phantom power will not be a problem either, if needed. Just need to figure out which hardware is the way to go. Oh, and yes all mics will be hidden under clothing.

I’m not a fan of lavs, as I said, and I almost cringe whenever I hear one used in a movie. I love the sound of the 416 when booming, it has such a natural and warm open sound… whereas even the highest-end lavs just sound so sterile to me. I think in this case though that lavs are the way to go.

Appreciate the advice!

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com